Not all gun owners are hunters and, strange as it may seem, all hunters are not gun owners. Hunters provide food and clothing for their families and the less fortunate, as well as preserve the balance in nature in our DESIGNATED hunting areas. Sure there are bad apples among us, but the president of PETA wears leather belts so knock it off.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
Sunday, January 24, 2010
What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I would like to get my son into hunting, squirell is the best starting point so. What gun? He has shot an adult size 12 guage 2 times but thouhgt it kicked too much. I like the 20 guage or should i get him a .22LR? 20 guage = better chance at getting squirell, .22 less kick , need better accuracy, but cant shoot out of tree just in case he misses. HelpWhat is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I have a project for english, and i need to find the opinions of other people on this subject, so if anyone would put in there opinion and help me out that would be greatly appriciated.What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
We are on top of the food chain, so why should we feel bad about hunting and fishing? What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I see less morality issues with hunting/fishing for sport and food, than I do with buying meat from the supermarket. Hunting for sport and food involves taking a wild animal from it's natural habitat, and that is about it. Buying from the supermarket means that the animal was raised to produce the most meat, for the least cost. You can guess what that means for the poor animal...
Now there are some hunters that go shoot just to kill stuff, and I'm not talking about eradicating predators or vermin. That kind of ';hunting'; has some moral issues to talk about.
What do I think the morality of hunting and fishing? I believe that it is more moral to harvest animals from nature and consume them as did are ancestors, that to let politics run what is rightfully human nature. We were designed to hunt, and have done it for thousands of years, and w have became increasingly more humane in doing it. The people that say its not moral, are the ones that would band hunting saying they are doing what is best, but ultimately are the ones clear cutting forest for new shopping malls, or build houses in the middle of the forest. I ask you this, is it more human to harvest a animal humanly, feed or family with high quality meat, or let “conservationist” destroy forest and kill many animals with cars, which is such a waste. Hunters are the best conservationist on the planet, their contributions, which include finances from hunting licenses, and sporting goods (taxes on which are used for conservation), and so on, accompanied with harvesting animals and protecting habitat, do far more than politicians or city slickers will ever do.
Morality is a human invention and is subject to the culture that you ask the question in
Hunger was invented by God and is subject only to the natural need to survive
Morality has nothing to do with hunting anymore than it has to do with whether or not you are a meat eater
The only morality involved is the method that you use to take the animal amnd that as I said earlier is subject to the whims of your culture
Hunting and fishing in an ethical ,humane manner helps control wild life populations while giving many people wholesome recreation. It also provides alot of food for people who just like wild game, as well as for needy people. Hunters donate tons of meat every year to be distributed to needy families. God put us on this earth to be stewards over it as well as masters over the animals. He also put em here for us to eat. As long as hunting and fishing are done ethically, with the idea of quick humane kills it is extremely moral and what we are supposed t do.
About 80 to 90 percent of people hold little or no opinion about hunting, as long as it is done under the guidelines set by state and federal wildlife agencies. The remaining 10 to 20 percent are split evenly between hunters and anti-hunters.
As for the morality of hunting, humans are part of nature. We have altered the natural order of nature and now the only viable tool for controlling wildlife populations is hunting. Many anti-hunting groups advocate birth control or relocation, but these efforts have been shown to be too expensive or nearly impossible to do. It is our duty to maintain wildlife populations at healthy level. Hunters have done this by harvesting the surplus animals and contributing billions of dollars to conservation efforts. These efforts have benefited game and non-game species. NO anti-hunting groups have ever given anything beneficial to conserving wildlife populations.
A true hunter eats what he/she kills and hunts in a legal manner; observing all safety rules, game laws, and striving for a quick and clean kill to reduce or eliminate any suffering by the animal. There are slobs out there who are breaking the rules and committing unsafe and unethical acts. These people are not hunters, they are slobs. Their actions are not condoned by the rest of us.
It would seem as though many people think we are above nature; that we are not part of nature. Non-hunters observe nature while hunters participate in nature.
The same goes for fishing.
So, the act of hunting is neither moral, nor immoral.
Morality has nothing to do with hunting or fishing. The way I see it,as sophisticated, intelligent,and evolved we the human species may have become we still started out as any other omnivore. All creatures in our world have one inborn purpose to their existence. That being to recreate by populating our environment with as many representative of their species as possible. Left alone to her own devices nature has a way of balancing her self out. Unfortunately she needs a little help from us, the superior species in maintaining some of those balances. That is for many reasons a few being we are too successful in our inborn purpose, resulting in encroachment and distruction of some habitats, etc. just to name a few.There are many other reasons nature needs our help but that's for another day. Back to the topic, for a species to prosper they need to be able to survive first. Our basic instincts born into us over millions of years taught us how to survive. The best of the species did indeed survive long enough to fulfill their desires to recreate while weaker or less fortunate ones provided the means for other species to survive by becoming their sustenance. So in a nut shell I am answering a primevel need. Do I enjoy watching another animal draw it's last breath? Deep down sometimes there is feeling of sadness,But most times there is strong sense of satisfaction that a million years ago I would be eating this day. So all I can tell you, is that for me, hunting, and fishing were just two ways we learned over millions of years to sustain our exsistence. I will never be ashamed of, or deny the need to answer the basic instincts that have been engrained into our species.
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: hunting
Pursuit of game animals, principally as sport. To early humans hunting was a necessity, and it remained so in many societies until recently. The development of agriculture made hunting less necessary as a sole life support, but game was still pursued in order to protect crops, flocks, or herds, as well as for food. Weapons now commonly used in hunting include the rifle, shotgun, and the bow and arrow, and methods include stalking, still-hunting (lying in wait), tracking, driving, and calling. Dogs are sometimes employed to track, flush, or capture prey. In Europe much of the land once hunted upon was owned by the aristocracy, and gamekeepers were employed to regulate the amount of game that could be hunted in a given area. By the 1800s the land hunted upon was not or had never been privately owned, and there began to develop a ';tragedy of the commons,'; in that no one hunter had any motive to limit the number of animals killed; certain species were hunted to, or very close to, extinction. To counter this development, ethical codes were established that give the quarry a fair chance to escape; attempts were made to minimize the suffering of wounded game; and game laws, licensing, and limited hunting seasons were established to protect game stocks. For instance, a modern license may authorize a hunter to kill only two deer during the brief season for deer, and he or she must present a kill to a game warden who will then document and tag the animal. There are often penalties and fines for being found with an animal that is not so marked.
Hunting and fishing do not in any way shape or form bring morality into question. Both pursuits are activities that we humans have engaged in since we stood on two legs. I hunt and fish and trap. I follow the rules laid down by my state and federal government. Morality has nothing to do with any of these human activities. Animals and fish are not human. They do not possess human qualities. They are animals, nothing more, nothing less. They may be utilized and consumed by man.
Madison-
There are some things that I feel that most folks who have never hunted do not understand. Morality has nothing to do with hunting. I know many folks in my church that enjoy hunting. I think folks confuse making a humane kill in the field with morality.
Most hunters use a rifle that has a large enough caliber to make the kill quick and clean on the first shot. Make no mistake, there is a significant amount of skill required to make these long distance shots at targets that are often on the move.
I have witnessed hunters in my years that have been abusive to animals that have been quarried by them. Trust me when I say there is nothing that makes my more angry when I see this happen. But, let me state a fact. Those incidents are very rare, and anytime I have seen this behavior, I have made a b-line or those folks trucks to record license plate numbers for report to Fish and Game Officers. In the years that I have been hunting, this has only happened twice.
I think what is not understood about harvesting of any animals is the fact that we are so used to purchasing or chicken, beef, fish, lamb, pork or any other product from our supermarkets. This detaches us from the reality that these animals provide our food.
When I lived with my parents, we operated a small subsistance farm. Mainly chickens. The chickens provided meat and eggs for our family. One per we would purchase a Pig and a Steer for slaughter. This provided the remainder of the meat we would use for the year. Fishing was done on a fairly regular basis, and this was always a welcome change.
But let me state this. It was always hard to kill the animals for slaughter, but it was something that had to be done for our family. Additional animals like rabbits wer hunted from my father's property, along with Phesants, Quail and Dove. All make excellent meals by the way.
All of these animals were dispatched in a completely humaine manner and rendered immediately.
Some may not agree, but hunting is a natural extension of the Agriculture Industry. As you can research, the Department of Fish and Game allow hunting and license for it. All of the major game animals also require Harvest Tags for the animals being taken during their open seasons. There are some animals that do not have a specific season, but this is mainly because they are animals are considered a menace, and therefore there is no limit on the amount of animals that may be taken.
Two that fall into this category in California are Wild Pigs and Coyote. This is because their infant mortality rate is nearly 0%, and the give birth to litters of animals like many rodents. However they are large enough, they have few natural predators, and to keep the population in check, hunting is the only option.
One of the sources that I would recommend that you explore is the State of California Department of Fish and Game. If you do not live here in this state, you should have a Fish and Game site available.
Sorry for being a little long winded, but there was quite a bit to answer in your question.
And... finally you ask about morality in this use of animals???
My dad and I were also thieves. How?
We also raised Honey Bees for their Honey and Wax. This is really nothing more than symbiotic theft. They make the honey and wax, and may dad and I take it and sell it. The only thing we provide for the bees is shelter and care.
Good luck with your report.
Hunting and fishing have nothing to do with morality. Animals do not have souls, they have no rights, they do not understand their existence. Hence, they are only suitable as food for us. I think that hunters and fisherman should be efficient and humane when they harvest game, but beyond that, more power to 'em.
fishing is widely accepted.
but you'll find that most people are against hunting.
granted most of these people have never held or shot any type of firearm.
some misguided and foolish people believe that ';guns'; are evil.
I don't believe any man or woman should be able to tell another woman what she can and cannot do to her own body.
no man or woman should be able to tell you what rifle or shotgun you can and cannot buy or own.
I don't agree with shooting many animals but I will fight for your right to do it as long as you do it legally and safely.
I have hunted all my life, and I'm 34. Growing up on a cotton farm my family didn't have much money. So basically hunting was a way of life. We would never shoot more than we could eat. We always hunted for deer, squirrel, dove, rabbit, pheasant. My dad always taught me to respect the animals, and thank god for providing us with food on our table. The bad thing about it though is you have people going out and killing anything that moves. It really ruins it for the people that pay the money for a license, and only shoot what they can eat. We always would save our money to buy a fishing license, hunting license and deer tag. That was around a hundred dollars back then for all of that. Now it is more.
The mortality of hunting only applies if the Brady Bunch, and Clintonites get there way.
Hunting, my family and myself, is a way of life.
We don't buy meat from the grocery store unless we have a guest over that does not like game meat. All of the meat we consume is wild game. We eat venison, hog, dove, duck, rabbit, quail.
Most of the the Texas Fish and Game Department's budget, 53% of it comes from from licensing and permits. So given that, if they outlawed hunting then the state would loose 53% of its conservation budget.
Every living creature must die.
I think it is much more honest to be directly involved in this than to pick up some pink strofoam plastic wrapped meat at the store, totally divoced from the fact that animals died to provide that food.
I also think that when a human being particiaptes directly it the food chain, looks at the death he has caused so that he and his family may eat, it connects man to nature in a way I cannot describe any more than a woman can describe to a childless man what childbirth and the love she feels at that instant for the baby are like. I further believe that interacting with life and death, seeing the full circle, helps humans better deal with their own eventual mortality.
Every time we kill to live, we are reminded of our ultimate fate.
I personally see nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, so long as the game is used for food purposes.
i dont hunt, i fish tho,
i also dont eat red meat so why would i kill it?
basicly i fee that yes hunting is something that needs to be done in order to provide food but if its just something to do for fun thats sick and so wrong its not even right.
Right now, according to Fox News, a wealthy out of state hunter has just checked into a local hotel for the coming deer/ boar season. He legally possessed 2 rifles and 2 handguns, with ammo. As a hunter, I must say this is not unusual, other than the guy being wealthy. But he was immediately arrested and is now in jail. Why? Because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also lives in that hotel, and she is an anti-gun Democrat, and this is San Francisco. Make of all this what you will.
With an ever-expanding human footprint on the environment, I feel something of a moral imperative to hunt for game management purposes (plus it's a ton of fun), but I don't have strongly negative feelings about people who choose not to participate; they may not have the opportunity or simply not enjoy it, so as long as there are plenty of us who do, it's OK.
If you've seen the way MEGAFARMS (CAFO's) disgustingly treat animals of all sorts, you'd become an activist for hunters immediately.
Fair chase is the most humane and safest method of acquiring meat for consumption.
If hormones, pesticides and drugs are on your menu...then the factory farms have what you desire, and can be found in every grocery store chain.
I think it's more ethical than animals that are farmed in horrible conditions. Hunting is natural - every carnivorous animal does it. It produces better meat, and the animal's live better too. And you get exercise.
'; Society will forever Judge Hunters by their Compassion for the Animals that they Hunt for and Harvest.'; Hunting is Fun and Enjoyable, Killing is Neither fun or Enjoyable.*..All Life is Precious to us True Hunters.*
Morality has nothing to do with hunting of fishing. Unless...you are stealing animals from private land without permission, or breaking some laws, or you do them in the nude maybe......
Its weird when people say ';Unless you are going to eat it, it is not needed';... But we play videogames, watch movies, read books.... which are not at all needed for survival.
Do you want to eat..?
If not i guess you dont have to fish or hunt.
I think that it is unnecessary, immoral, and unfair to the animal.
We are on top of the food chain, so why should we feel bad about hunting and fishing? What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I see less morality issues with hunting/fishing for sport and food, than I do with buying meat from the supermarket. Hunting for sport and food involves taking a wild animal from it's natural habitat, and that is about it. Buying from the supermarket means that the animal was raised to produce the most meat, for the least cost. You can guess what that means for the poor animal...
Now there are some hunters that go shoot just to kill stuff, and I'm not talking about eradicating predators or vermin. That kind of ';hunting'; has some moral issues to talk about.
What do I think the morality of hunting and fishing? I believe that it is more moral to harvest animals from nature and consume them as did are ancestors, that to let politics run what is rightfully human nature. We were designed to hunt, and have done it for thousands of years, and w have became increasingly more humane in doing it. The people that say its not moral, are the ones that would band hunting saying they are doing what is best, but ultimately are the ones clear cutting forest for new shopping malls, or build houses in the middle of the forest. I ask you this, is it more human to harvest a animal humanly, feed or family with high quality meat, or let “conservationist” destroy forest and kill many animals with cars, which is such a waste. Hunters are the best conservationist on the planet, their contributions, which include finances from hunting licenses, and sporting goods (taxes on which are used for conservation), and so on, accompanied with harvesting animals and protecting habitat, do far more than politicians or city slickers will ever do.
Morality is a human invention and is subject to the culture that you ask the question in
Hunger was invented by God and is subject only to the natural need to survive
Morality has nothing to do with hunting anymore than it has to do with whether or not you are a meat eater
The only morality involved is the method that you use to take the animal amnd that as I said earlier is subject to the whims of your culture
Hunting and fishing in an ethical ,humane manner helps control wild life populations while giving many people wholesome recreation. It also provides alot of food for people who just like wild game, as well as for needy people. Hunters donate tons of meat every year to be distributed to needy families. God put us on this earth to be stewards over it as well as masters over the animals. He also put em here for us to eat. As long as hunting and fishing are done ethically, with the idea of quick humane kills it is extremely moral and what we are supposed t do.
About 80 to 90 percent of people hold little or no opinion about hunting, as long as it is done under the guidelines set by state and federal wildlife agencies. The remaining 10 to 20 percent are split evenly between hunters and anti-hunters.
As for the morality of hunting, humans are part of nature. We have altered the natural order of nature and now the only viable tool for controlling wildlife populations is hunting. Many anti-hunting groups advocate birth control or relocation, but these efforts have been shown to be too expensive or nearly impossible to do. It is our duty to maintain wildlife populations at healthy level. Hunters have done this by harvesting the surplus animals and contributing billions of dollars to conservation efforts. These efforts have benefited game and non-game species. NO anti-hunting groups have ever given anything beneficial to conserving wildlife populations.
A true hunter eats what he/she kills and hunts in a legal manner; observing all safety rules, game laws, and striving for a quick and clean kill to reduce or eliminate any suffering by the animal. There are slobs out there who are breaking the rules and committing unsafe and unethical acts. These people are not hunters, they are slobs. Their actions are not condoned by the rest of us.
It would seem as though many people think we are above nature; that we are not part of nature. Non-hunters observe nature while hunters participate in nature.
The same goes for fishing.
So, the act of hunting is neither moral, nor immoral.
Morality has nothing to do with hunting or fishing. The way I see it,as sophisticated, intelligent,and evolved we the human species may have become we still started out as any other omnivore. All creatures in our world have one inborn purpose to their existence. That being to recreate by populating our environment with as many representative of their species as possible. Left alone to her own devices nature has a way of balancing her self out. Unfortunately she needs a little help from us, the superior species in maintaining some of those balances. That is for many reasons a few being we are too successful in our inborn purpose, resulting in encroachment and distruction of some habitats, etc. just to name a few.There are many other reasons nature needs our help but that's for another day. Back to the topic, for a species to prosper they need to be able to survive first. Our basic instincts born into us over millions of years taught us how to survive. The best of the species did indeed survive long enough to fulfill their desires to recreate while weaker or less fortunate ones provided the means for other species to survive by becoming their sustenance. So in a nut shell I am answering a primevel need. Do I enjoy watching another animal draw it's last breath? Deep down sometimes there is feeling of sadness,But most times there is strong sense of satisfaction that a million years ago I would be eating this day. So all I can tell you, is that for me, hunting, and fishing were just two ways we learned over millions of years to sustain our exsistence. I will never be ashamed of, or deny the need to answer the basic instincts that have been engrained into our species.
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: hunting
Pursuit of game animals, principally as sport. To early humans hunting was a necessity, and it remained so in many societies until recently. The development of agriculture made hunting less necessary as a sole life support, but game was still pursued in order to protect crops, flocks, or herds, as well as for food. Weapons now commonly used in hunting include the rifle, shotgun, and the bow and arrow, and methods include stalking, still-hunting (lying in wait), tracking, driving, and calling. Dogs are sometimes employed to track, flush, or capture prey. In Europe much of the land once hunted upon was owned by the aristocracy, and gamekeepers were employed to regulate the amount of game that could be hunted in a given area. By the 1800s the land hunted upon was not or had never been privately owned, and there began to develop a ';tragedy of the commons,'; in that no one hunter had any motive to limit the number of animals killed; certain species were hunted to, or very close to, extinction. To counter this development, ethical codes were established that give the quarry a fair chance to escape; attempts were made to minimize the suffering of wounded game; and game laws, licensing, and limited hunting seasons were established to protect game stocks. For instance, a modern license may authorize a hunter to kill only two deer during the brief season for deer, and he or she must present a kill to a game warden who will then document and tag the animal. There are often penalties and fines for being found with an animal that is not so marked.
Hunting and fishing do not in any way shape or form bring morality into question. Both pursuits are activities that we humans have engaged in since we stood on two legs. I hunt and fish and trap. I follow the rules laid down by my state and federal government. Morality has nothing to do with any of these human activities. Animals and fish are not human. They do not possess human qualities. They are animals, nothing more, nothing less. They may be utilized and consumed by man.
Madison-
There are some things that I feel that most folks who have never hunted do not understand. Morality has nothing to do with hunting. I know many folks in my church that enjoy hunting. I think folks confuse making a humane kill in the field with morality.
Most hunters use a rifle that has a large enough caliber to make the kill quick and clean on the first shot. Make no mistake, there is a significant amount of skill required to make these long distance shots at targets that are often on the move.
I have witnessed hunters in my years that have been abusive to animals that have been quarried by them. Trust me when I say there is nothing that makes my more angry when I see this happen. But, let me state a fact. Those incidents are very rare, and anytime I have seen this behavior, I have made a b-line or those folks trucks to record license plate numbers for report to Fish and Game Officers. In the years that I have been hunting, this has only happened twice.
I think what is not understood about harvesting of any animals is the fact that we are so used to purchasing or chicken, beef, fish, lamb, pork or any other product from our supermarkets. This detaches us from the reality that these animals provide our food.
When I lived with my parents, we operated a small subsistance farm. Mainly chickens. The chickens provided meat and eggs for our family. One per we would purchase a Pig and a Steer for slaughter. This provided the remainder of the meat we would use for the year. Fishing was done on a fairly regular basis, and this was always a welcome change.
But let me state this. It was always hard to kill the animals for slaughter, but it was something that had to be done for our family. Additional animals like rabbits wer hunted from my father's property, along with Phesants, Quail and Dove. All make excellent meals by the way.
All of these animals were dispatched in a completely humaine manner and rendered immediately.
Some may not agree, but hunting is a natural extension of the Agriculture Industry. As you can research, the Department of Fish and Game allow hunting and license for it. All of the major game animals also require Harvest Tags for the animals being taken during their open seasons. There are some animals that do not have a specific season, but this is mainly because they are animals are considered a menace, and therefore there is no limit on the amount of animals that may be taken.
Two that fall into this category in California are Wild Pigs and Coyote. This is because their infant mortality rate is nearly 0%, and the give birth to litters of animals like many rodents. However they are large enough, they have few natural predators, and to keep the population in check, hunting is the only option.
One of the sources that I would recommend that you explore is the State of California Department of Fish and Game. If you do not live here in this state, you should have a Fish and Game site available.
Sorry for being a little long winded, but there was quite a bit to answer in your question.
And... finally you ask about morality in this use of animals???
My dad and I were also thieves. How?
We also raised Honey Bees for their Honey and Wax. This is really nothing more than symbiotic theft. They make the honey and wax, and may dad and I take it and sell it. The only thing we provide for the bees is shelter and care.
Good luck with your report.
Hunting and fishing have nothing to do with morality. Animals do not have souls, they have no rights, they do not understand their existence. Hence, they are only suitable as food for us. I think that hunters and fisherman should be efficient and humane when they harvest game, but beyond that, more power to 'em.
fishing is widely accepted.
but you'll find that most people are against hunting.
granted most of these people have never held or shot any type of firearm.
some misguided and foolish people believe that ';guns'; are evil.
I don't believe any man or woman should be able to tell another woman what she can and cannot do to her own body.
no man or woman should be able to tell you what rifle or shotgun you can and cannot buy or own.
I don't agree with shooting many animals but I will fight for your right to do it as long as you do it legally and safely.
I have hunted all my life, and I'm 34. Growing up on a cotton farm my family didn't have much money. So basically hunting was a way of life. We would never shoot more than we could eat. We always hunted for deer, squirrel, dove, rabbit, pheasant. My dad always taught me to respect the animals, and thank god for providing us with food on our table. The bad thing about it though is you have people going out and killing anything that moves. It really ruins it for the people that pay the money for a license, and only shoot what they can eat. We always would save our money to buy a fishing license, hunting license and deer tag. That was around a hundred dollars back then for all of that. Now it is more.
The mortality of hunting only applies if the Brady Bunch, and Clintonites get there way.
Hunting, my family and myself, is a way of life.
We don't buy meat from the grocery store unless we have a guest over that does not like game meat. All of the meat we consume is wild game. We eat venison, hog, dove, duck, rabbit, quail.
Most of the the Texas Fish and Game Department's budget, 53% of it comes from from licensing and permits. So given that, if they outlawed hunting then the state would loose 53% of its conservation budget.
Every living creature must die.
I think it is much more honest to be directly involved in this than to pick up some pink strofoam plastic wrapped meat at the store, totally divoced from the fact that animals died to provide that food.
I also think that when a human being particiaptes directly it the food chain, looks at the death he has caused so that he and his family may eat, it connects man to nature in a way I cannot describe any more than a woman can describe to a childless man what childbirth and the love she feels at that instant for the baby are like. I further believe that interacting with life and death, seeing the full circle, helps humans better deal with their own eventual mortality.
Every time we kill to live, we are reminded of our ultimate fate.
I personally see nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, so long as the game is used for food purposes.
i dont hunt, i fish tho,
i also dont eat red meat so why would i kill it?
basicly i fee that yes hunting is something that needs to be done in order to provide food but if its just something to do for fun thats sick and so wrong its not even right.
Right now, according to Fox News, a wealthy out of state hunter has just checked into a local hotel for the coming deer/ boar season. He legally possessed 2 rifles and 2 handguns, with ammo. As a hunter, I must say this is not unusual, other than the guy being wealthy. But he was immediately arrested and is now in jail. Why? Because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also lives in that hotel, and she is an anti-gun Democrat, and this is San Francisco. Make of all this what you will.
With an ever-expanding human footprint on the environment, I feel something of a moral imperative to hunt for game management purposes (plus it's a ton of fun), but I don't have strongly negative feelings about people who choose not to participate; they may not have the opportunity or simply not enjoy it, so as long as there are plenty of us who do, it's OK.
If you've seen the way MEGAFARMS (CAFO's) disgustingly treat animals of all sorts, you'd become an activist for hunters immediately.
Fair chase is the most humane and safest method of acquiring meat for consumption.
If hormones, pesticides and drugs are on your menu...then the factory farms have what you desire, and can be found in every grocery store chain.
I think it's more ethical than animals that are farmed in horrible conditions. Hunting is natural - every carnivorous animal does it. It produces better meat, and the animal's live better too. And you get exercise.
'; Society will forever Judge Hunters by their Compassion for the Animals that they Hunt for and Harvest.'; Hunting is Fun and Enjoyable, Killing is Neither fun or Enjoyable.*..All Life is Precious to us True Hunters.*
Morality has nothing to do with hunting of fishing. Unless...you are stealing animals from private land without permission, or breaking some laws, or you do them in the nude maybe......
Its weird when people say ';Unless you are going to eat it, it is not needed';... But we play videogames, watch movies, read books.... which are not at all needed for survival.
Do you want to eat..?
If not i guess you dont have to fish or hunt.
I think that it is unnecessary, immoral, and unfair to the animal.
What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
NO! I don't want to kill an elephant, I don't think anyone should shoot them or hunt them, I think they should be protected. I am simply asking this from a ballistics standpoint!What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
Well you should be assured they are protected, and heavily game managed on strict licencing.A lot of fees for shooting one(around $10,000-20,000) goes to the park to fight poachers, and pay for more wardens.
As funny as it sounds while hunters did originally almost wipe out elephants 100 years ago, it is now hunters saving them from illegal poachers.
A lot of the countries who refused to make strict hunting legal, lost their elephants to poachers, starvation and even minefields(left overs from all the african wars which kill millions of african animals each year)
The reason is the only a park with a lot of money can fix these problems.The average african country is literally too poor to do it themselves.
As to which guns first I'll address some of the other replies.
The 50BMG will kill an elephant but is not the best to use, in fact is is pretty useless. To shoot elephant you may need to be waist deep in long grass, or even standing in a stream, or on a steep slope.A gun like the 50 BMG that you need to lie down to fire is obviously no good. Even if you can shoulder fire it, it is very heavy, and very long in the barrel, and not something you want to carry for 10 miles following elephant.
The 405 winchester is no good for elephant. Bullets to short and stubby. Its okay for most big game except african dangerous game.
The most commonly used rifle for elephant, and the legal minimum is the 375H%26amp;H. It fires a .375 calibre 300gn(about 3/4 ounce) bullet at around 2500fps.
There are many other calibres used such as the 458 winchester magnum, 416 remington, the 378, 416 and 460 weatherby magnums, the olden day 450, 500 and 600 nitro and many others.
They all have some common requirements.
1.Bullets that have a lot of weight for their calibre, in other words they are quite long.
2. Bullets that are either totally solid or have a full metal jacket so they do not deform or break up upon impact.
3.Bullets that have round or blunt noses, since pointed solids will tend to destablise in flesh and veer off course badly(another reason the 50BMG is not a good choice since 90% of its ammunition is pointed).
4.Velocities of at least 1950fps and up to around 3000fps, though generally 2200-2450fps is considered all you need.
For elephant the toughest shot is the frontal brain shot, for which the above bullets are needed to get through the 18+'; of cellular bone structure. This is also the only shot that will kill them during a charge so it is the most important shot for your own safety.
Side brain shots are a lot easier and can be handled with many other rifles. It is also possible to kill elephant successful with lung and heart shots, though the elephant will not die straight away. It may take from a few seconds to a miniute or more to bleed out and you will have to follow it while it does.
So once again while a lot of guns will kill an elephant some of the time, the elephant guns mentioned above are the ones that will kill it every time, and can be used quickly from most hunting angles.
hope this helped.What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
In order to realistically have a shot at killing an elephant, you need a large caliber rifle loaded with solid jacket bullets. Elephant skulls are incredibly thick and strong. It is not unheard of for a frontal brain shot to ricochet off an elephant's skull.
Any of the following rounds will kill an elephant with a proper shot:
.416 Rigby
.458 WinMag
.458 Lott
.450 3 1/4
.577 Tyrannosaur
.600 Nitro Express
.700 Nitro Express
The occasions are very rare now, but they still need to be killed once in a while.
The best for general purposes was worked out long ago: the large-bore double rifle custom fit to your frame. Whether it's chambered for 470 Nitro Express or something a bit bigger or smaller isn't so important. The 450 NE was felt to be more than satisfactory before the 45 caliber was banned in the British colonies, and if you could find one of those old shooters, it would be just as good now.
WOW, 1 elephant hunter!
Make a fist then look at it.Thats the size of its brain.%26gt;30 cals were killing elephant once the sweet-spot was located even the 6.5 was used.
Everything else was for penetration w/ knock down force where the side shot could be taken after Dumbo was knocked down.
I watched a massive Ivory Bull take a double tap from a 500NE in the top at full charge.He stayed down for about 4 seconds and started to stand up. It was real-time slow motion cause he was so massive and once he got one leg extended everybody started to blast him.(Security?/Porters?)
Pick one of these.*..%26lt;%26gt; 405 Winchester, 375 H%26amp;H, 416 Remington Magnum, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum.*...According to the Winchester Product Service Ballistics Manuel for 2008.*
If you would take the time to learn about elephant hunting as it is currently being managed, you might find that hunting is why the elephant has not been exterminated. Wise up.
The .50 cal BMG would get the job done but i suspect any of the big bore rifles - 416 Rigby, 475 H%26amp;H etc. have and will kill elephants.
Kind of a silly question from an environmental type.
Walter Bell killed over 1000 elephants in his time and his favorite rifle was a 7x57 Mauser. Takes pretty big brass ones to shoot elephant with a 7mm Mauser.
375 H %26amp; H
416 RIGBY
500 NITRO
All of these will do the job as far as elephant hunting goes
.500 Nitro Single Shotdiscount makeup
Well you should be assured they are protected, and heavily game managed on strict licencing.A lot of fees for shooting one(around $10,000-20,000) goes to the park to fight poachers, and pay for more wardens.
As funny as it sounds while hunters did originally almost wipe out elephants 100 years ago, it is now hunters saving them from illegal poachers.
A lot of the countries who refused to make strict hunting legal, lost their elephants to poachers, starvation and even minefields(left overs from all the african wars which kill millions of african animals each year)
The reason is the only a park with a lot of money can fix these problems.The average african country is literally too poor to do it themselves.
As to which guns first I'll address some of the other replies.
The 50BMG will kill an elephant but is not the best to use, in fact is is pretty useless. To shoot elephant you may need to be waist deep in long grass, or even standing in a stream, or on a steep slope.A gun like the 50 BMG that you need to lie down to fire is obviously no good. Even if you can shoulder fire it, it is very heavy, and very long in the barrel, and not something you want to carry for 10 miles following elephant.
The 405 winchester is no good for elephant. Bullets to short and stubby. Its okay for most big game except african dangerous game.
The most commonly used rifle for elephant, and the legal minimum is the 375H%26amp;H. It fires a .375 calibre 300gn(about 3/4 ounce) bullet at around 2500fps.
There are many other calibres used such as the 458 winchester magnum, 416 remington, the 378, 416 and 460 weatherby magnums, the olden day 450, 500 and 600 nitro and many others.
They all have some common requirements.
1.Bullets that have a lot of weight for their calibre, in other words they are quite long.
2. Bullets that are either totally solid or have a full metal jacket so they do not deform or break up upon impact.
3.Bullets that have round or blunt noses, since pointed solids will tend to destablise in flesh and veer off course badly(another reason the 50BMG is not a good choice since 90% of its ammunition is pointed).
4.Velocities of at least 1950fps and up to around 3000fps, though generally 2200-2450fps is considered all you need.
For elephant the toughest shot is the frontal brain shot, for which the above bullets are needed to get through the 18+'; of cellular bone structure. This is also the only shot that will kill them during a charge so it is the most important shot for your own safety.
Side brain shots are a lot easier and can be handled with many other rifles. It is also possible to kill elephant successful with lung and heart shots, though the elephant will not die straight away. It may take from a few seconds to a miniute or more to bleed out and you will have to follow it while it does.
So once again while a lot of guns will kill an elephant some of the time, the elephant guns mentioned above are the ones that will kill it every time, and can be used quickly from most hunting angles.
hope this helped.What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
In order to realistically have a shot at killing an elephant, you need a large caliber rifle loaded with solid jacket bullets. Elephant skulls are incredibly thick and strong. It is not unheard of for a frontal brain shot to ricochet off an elephant's skull.
Any of the following rounds will kill an elephant with a proper shot:
.416 Rigby
.458 WinMag
.458 Lott
.450 3 1/4
.577 Tyrannosaur
.600 Nitro Express
.700 Nitro Express
The occasions are very rare now, but they still need to be killed once in a while.
The best for general purposes was worked out long ago: the large-bore double rifle custom fit to your frame. Whether it's chambered for 470 Nitro Express or something a bit bigger or smaller isn't so important. The 450 NE was felt to be more than satisfactory before the 45 caliber was banned in the British colonies, and if you could find one of those old shooters, it would be just as good now.
WOW, 1 elephant hunter!
Make a fist then look at it.Thats the size of its brain.%26gt;30 cals were killing elephant once the sweet-spot was located even the 6.5 was used.
Everything else was for penetration w/ knock down force where the side shot could be taken after Dumbo was knocked down.
I watched a massive Ivory Bull take a double tap from a 500NE in the top at full charge.He stayed down for about 4 seconds and started to stand up. It was real-time slow motion cause he was so massive and once he got one leg extended everybody started to blast him.(Security?/Porters?)
Pick one of these.*..%26lt;%26gt; 405 Winchester, 375 H%26amp;H, 416 Remington Magnum, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum.*...According to the Winchester Product Service Ballistics Manuel for 2008.*
If you would take the time to learn about elephant hunting as it is currently being managed, you might find that hunting is why the elephant has not been exterminated. Wise up.
The .50 cal BMG would get the job done but i suspect any of the big bore rifles - 416 Rigby, 475 H%26amp;H etc. have and will kill elephants.
Kind of a silly question from an environmental type.
Walter Bell killed over 1000 elephants in his time and his favorite rifle was a 7x57 Mauser. Takes pretty big brass ones to shoot elephant with a 7mm Mauser.
375 H %26amp; H
416 RIGBY
500 NITRO
All of these will do the job as far as elephant hunting goes
.500 Nitro Single Shot
How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
Is it not about this time every election cycle that we see the Dems become pro-second admendment sending pics and telling storys about hunting. I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
or sticking their ugly mugs out the top of a tank?How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
What the 2nd ammendment is about is insecure gun fanatics
worshiping phallus symbols. That basically sums up the whole psychology of right wing weirdos who cant get a date.
Y'mean like Mitt Romney? Da man say he been a lifelong hunter but never held a hunting license in his life. Shhh! Be vewy, vewy quiet. Mitt's hunting wabbit! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Just like Elmer Fudd...
I hope they take Cheney with them
as soon as dick Cheney gets done hiding all the big bucks he is accused of stealing, it'll be a threesome in Hot Springs, but Cheney's shooting Jacket has been used before as is it true of his moss berg!
Well Hillary is from Arkansas, I think duck hunting is a step up from pig calling.
';...I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.';
....at least they know how to shoot straight, unlike most Republicans and even some Democrats in Washington these days.
I'm wondering how much B.S. they are going to spit in Texas in order to gain their votes.
Have you looked closely at Hillary's hands? Her fingers are webbed.
about 27 days
or sticking their ugly mugs out the top of a tank?How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
What the 2nd ammendment is about is insecure gun fanatics
worshiping phallus symbols. That basically sums up the whole psychology of right wing weirdos who cant get a date.
Y'mean like Mitt Romney? Da man say he been a lifelong hunter but never held a hunting license in his life. Shhh! Be vewy, vewy quiet. Mitt's hunting wabbit! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Just like Elmer Fudd...
I hope they take Cheney with them
as soon as dick Cheney gets done hiding all the big bucks he is accused of stealing, it'll be a threesome in Hot Springs, but Cheney's shooting Jacket has been used before as is it true of his moss berg!
Well Hillary is from Arkansas, I think duck hunting is a step up from pig calling.
';...I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.';
....at least they know how to shoot straight, unlike most Republicans and even some Democrats in Washington these days.
I'm wondering how much B.S. they are going to spit in Texas in order to gain their votes.
Have you looked closely at Hillary's hands? Her fingers are webbed.
about 27 days
Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Not all gun owners are hunters and, strange as it may seem, all hunters are not gun owners. Hunters provide food and clothing for their families and the less fortunate, as well as preserve the balance in nature in our DESIGNATED hunting areas. Sure there are bad apples among us, but the president of PETA wears leather belts so knock it off.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I would like to get my son into hunting, squirell is the best starting point so. What gun? He has shot an adult size 12 guage 2 times but thouhgt it kicked too much. I like the 20 guage or should i get him a .22LR? 20 guage = better chance at getting squirell, .22 less kick , need better accuracy, but cant shoot out of tree just in case he misses. HelpWhat is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
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