Not all gun owners are hunters and, strange as it may seem, all hunters are not gun owners. Hunters provide food and clothing for their families and the less fortunate, as well as preserve the balance in nature in our DESIGNATED hunting areas. Sure there are bad apples among us, but the president of PETA wears leather belts so knock it off.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
Sunday, January 24, 2010
What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I would like to get my son into hunting, squirell is the best starting point so. What gun? He has shot an adult size 12 guage 2 times but thouhgt it kicked too much. I like the 20 guage or should i get him a .22LR? 20 guage = better chance at getting squirell, .22 less kick , need better accuracy, but cant shoot out of tree just in case he misses. HelpWhat is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I have a project for english, and i need to find the opinions of other people on this subject, so if anyone would put in there opinion and help me out that would be greatly appriciated.What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
We are on top of the food chain, so why should we feel bad about hunting and fishing? What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I see less morality issues with hunting/fishing for sport and food, than I do with buying meat from the supermarket. Hunting for sport and food involves taking a wild animal from it's natural habitat, and that is about it. Buying from the supermarket means that the animal was raised to produce the most meat, for the least cost. You can guess what that means for the poor animal...
Now there are some hunters that go shoot just to kill stuff, and I'm not talking about eradicating predators or vermin. That kind of ';hunting'; has some moral issues to talk about.
What do I think the morality of hunting and fishing? I believe that it is more moral to harvest animals from nature and consume them as did are ancestors, that to let politics run what is rightfully human nature. We were designed to hunt, and have done it for thousands of years, and w have became increasingly more humane in doing it. The people that say its not moral, are the ones that would band hunting saying they are doing what is best, but ultimately are the ones clear cutting forest for new shopping malls, or build houses in the middle of the forest. I ask you this, is it more human to harvest a animal humanly, feed or family with high quality meat, or let “conservationist” destroy forest and kill many animals with cars, which is such a waste. Hunters are the best conservationist on the planet, their contributions, which include finances from hunting licenses, and sporting goods (taxes on which are used for conservation), and so on, accompanied with harvesting animals and protecting habitat, do far more than politicians or city slickers will ever do.
Morality is a human invention and is subject to the culture that you ask the question in
Hunger was invented by God and is subject only to the natural need to survive
Morality has nothing to do with hunting anymore than it has to do with whether or not you are a meat eater
The only morality involved is the method that you use to take the animal amnd that as I said earlier is subject to the whims of your culture
Hunting and fishing in an ethical ,humane manner helps control wild life populations while giving many people wholesome recreation. It also provides alot of food for people who just like wild game, as well as for needy people. Hunters donate tons of meat every year to be distributed to needy families. God put us on this earth to be stewards over it as well as masters over the animals. He also put em here for us to eat. As long as hunting and fishing are done ethically, with the idea of quick humane kills it is extremely moral and what we are supposed t do.
About 80 to 90 percent of people hold little or no opinion about hunting, as long as it is done under the guidelines set by state and federal wildlife agencies. The remaining 10 to 20 percent are split evenly between hunters and anti-hunters.
As for the morality of hunting, humans are part of nature. We have altered the natural order of nature and now the only viable tool for controlling wildlife populations is hunting. Many anti-hunting groups advocate birth control or relocation, but these efforts have been shown to be too expensive or nearly impossible to do. It is our duty to maintain wildlife populations at healthy level. Hunters have done this by harvesting the surplus animals and contributing billions of dollars to conservation efforts. These efforts have benefited game and non-game species. NO anti-hunting groups have ever given anything beneficial to conserving wildlife populations.
A true hunter eats what he/she kills and hunts in a legal manner; observing all safety rules, game laws, and striving for a quick and clean kill to reduce or eliminate any suffering by the animal. There are slobs out there who are breaking the rules and committing unsafe and unethical acts. These people are not hunters, they are slobs. Their actions are not condoned by the rest of us.
It would seem as though many people think we are above nature; that we are not part of nature. Non-hunters observe nature while hunters participate in nature.
The same goes for fishing.
So, the act of hunting is neither moral, nor immoral.
Morality has nothing to do with hunting or fishing. The way I see it,as sophisticated, intelligent,and evolved we the human species may have become we still started out as any other omnivore. All creatures in our world have one inborn purpose to their existence. That being to recreate by populating our environment with as many representative of their species as possible. Left alone to her own devices nature has a way of balancing her self out. Unfortunately she needs a little help from us, the superior species in maintaining some of those balances. That is for many reasons a few being we are too successful in our inborn purpose, resulting in encroachment and distruction of some habitats, etc. just to name a few.There are many other reasons nature needs our help but that's for another day. Back to the topic, for a species to prosper they need to be able to survive first. Our basic instincts born into us over millions of years taught us how to survive. The best of the species did indeed survive long enough to fulfill their desires to recreate while weaker or less fortunate ones provided the means for other species to survive by becoming their sustenance. So in a nut shell I am answering a primevel need. Do I enjoy watching another animal draw it's last breath? Deep down sometimes there is feeling of sadness,But most times there is strong sense of satisfaction that a million years ago I would be eating this day. So all I can tell you, is that for me, hunting, and fishing were just two ways we learned over millions of years to sustain our exsistence. I will never be ashamed of, or deny the need to answer the basic instincts that have been engrained into our species.
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: hunting
Pursuit of game animals, principally as sport. To early humans hunting was a necessity, and it remained so in many societies until recently. The development of agriculture made hunting less necessary as a sole life support, but game was still pursued in order to protect crops, flocks, or herds, as well as for food. Weapons now commonly used in hunting include the rifle, shotgun, and the bow and arrow, and methods include stalking, still-hunting (lying in wait), tracking, driving, and calling. Dogs are sometimes employed to track, flush, or capture prey. In Europe much of the land once hunted upon was owned by the aristocracy, and gamekeepers were employed to regulate the amount of game that could be hunted in a given area. By the 1800s the land hunted upon was not or had never been privately owned, and there began to develop a ';tragedy of the commons,'; in that no one hunter had any motive to limit the number of animals killed; certain species were hunted to, or very close to, extinction. To counter this development, ethical codes were established that give the quarry a fair chance to escape; attempts were made to minimize the suffering of wounded game; and game laws, licensing, and limited hunting seasons were established to protect game stocks. For instance, a modern license may authorize a hunter to kill only two deer during the brief season for deer, and he or she must present a kill to a game warden who will then document and tag the animal. There are often penalties and fines for being found with an animal that is not so marked.
Hunting and fishing do not in any way shape or form bring morality into question. Both pursuits are activities that we humans have engaged in since we stood on two legs. I hunt and fish and trap. I follow the rules laid down by my state and federal government. Morality has nothing to do with any of these human activities. Animals and fish are not human. They do not possess human qualities. They are animals, nothing more, nothing less. They may be utilized and consumed by man.
Madison-
There are some things that I feel that most folks who have never hunted do not understand. Morality has nothing to do with hunting. I know many folks in my church that enjoy hunting. I think folks confuse making a humane kill in the field with morality.
Most hunters use a rifle that has a large enough caliber to make the kill quick and clean on the first shot. Make no mistake, there is a significant amount of skill required to make these long distance shots at targets that are often on the move.
I have witnessed hunters in my years that have been abusive to animals that have been quarried by them. Trust me when I say there is nothing that makes my more angry when I see this happen. But, let me state a fact. Those incidents are very rare, and anytime I have seen this behavior, I have made a b-line or those folks trucks to record license plate numbers for report to Fish and Game Officers. In the years that I have been hunting, this has only happened twice.
I think what is not understood about harvesting of any animals is the fact that we are so used to purchasing or chicken, beef, fish, lamb, pork or any other product from our supermarkets. This detaches us from the reality that these animals provide our food.
When I lived with my parents, we operated a small subsistance farm. Mainly chickens. The chickens provided meat and eggs for our family. One per we would purchase a Pig and a Steer for slaughter. This provided the remainder of the meat we would use for the year. Fishing was done on a fairly regular basis, and this was always a welcome change.
But let me state this. It was always hard to kill the animals for slaughter, but it was something that had to be done for our family. Additional animals like rabbits wer hunted from my father's property, along with Phesants, Quail and Dove. All make excellent meals by the way.
All of these animals were dispatched in a completely humaine manner and rendered immediately.
Some may not agree, but hunting is a natural extension of the Agriculture Industry. As you can research, the Department of Fish and Game allow hunting and license for it. All of the major game animals also require Harvest Tags for the animals being taken during their open seasons. There are some animals that do not have a specific season, but this is mainly because they are animals are considered a menace, and therefore there is no limit on the amount of animals that may be taken.
Two that fall into this category in California are Wild Pigs and Coyote. This is because their infant mortality rate is nearly 0%, and the give birth to litters of animals like many rodents. However they are large enough, they have few natural predators, and to keep the population in check, hunting is the only option.
One of the sources that I would recommend that you explore is the State of California Department of Fish and Game. If you do not live here in this state, you should have a Fish and Game site available.
Sorry for being a little long winded, but there was quite a bit to answer in your question.
And... finally you ask about morality in this use of animals???
My dad and I were also thieves. How?
We also raised Honey Bees for their Honey and Wax. This is really nothing more than symbiotic theft. They make the honey and wax, and may dad and I take it and sell it. The only thing we provide for the bees is shelter and care.
Good luck with your report.
Hunting and fishing have nothing to do with morality. Animals do not have souls, they have no rights, they do not understand their existence. Hence, they are only suitable as food for us. I think that hunters and fisherman should be efficient and humane when they harvest game, but beyond that, more power to 'em.
fishing is widely accepted.
but you'll find that most people are against hunting.
granted most of these people have never held or shot any type of firearm.
some misguided and foolish people believe that ';guns'; are evil.
I don't believe any man or woman should be able to tell another woman what she can and cannot do to her own body.
no man or woman should be able to tell you what rifle or shotgun you can and cannot buy or own.
I don't agree with shooting many animals but I will fight for your right to do it as long as you do it legally and safely.
I have hunted all my life, and I'm 34. Growing up on a cotton farm my family didn't have much money. So basically hunting was a way of life. We would never shoot more than we could eat. We always hunted for deer, squirrel, dove, rabbit, pheasant. My dad always taught me to respect the animals, and thank god for providing us with food on our table. The bad thing about it though is you have people going out and killing anything that moves. It really ruins it for the people that pay the money for a license, and only shoot what they can eat. We always would save our money to buy a fishing license, hunting license and deer tag. That was around a hundred dollars back then for all of that. Now it is more.
The mortality of hunting only applies if the Brady Bunch, and Clintonites get there way.
Hunting, my family and myself, is a way of life.
We don't buy meat from the grocery store unless we have a guest over that does not like game meat. All of the meat we consume is wild game. We eat venison, hog, dove, duck, rabbit, quail.
Most of the the Texas Fish and Game Department's budget, 53% of it comes from from licensing and permits. So given that, if they outlawed hunting then the state would loose 53% of its conservation budget.
Every living creature must die.
I think it is much more honest to be directly involved in this than to pick up some pink strofoam plastic wrapped meat at the store, totally divoced from the fact that animals died to provide that food.
I also think that when a human being particiaptes directly it the food chain, looks at the death he has caused so that he and his family may eat, it connects man to nature in a way I cannot describe any more than a woman can describe to a childless man what childbirth and the love she feels at that instant for the baby are like. I further believe that interacting with life and death, seeing the full circle, helps humans better deal with their own eventual mortality.
Every time we kill to live, we are reminded of our ultimate fate.
I personally see nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, so long as the game is used for food purposes.
i dont hunt, i fish tho,
i also dont eat red meat so why would i kill it?
basicly i fee that yes hunting is something that needs to be done in order to provide food but if its just something to do for fun thats sick and so wrong its not even right.
Right now, according to Fox News, a wealthy out of state hunter has just checked into a local hotel for the coming deer/ boar season. He legally possessed 2 rifles and 2 handguns, with ammo. As a hunter, I must say this is not unusual, other than the guy being wealthy. But he was immediately arrested and is now in jail. Why? Because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also lives in that hotel, and she is an anti-gun Democrat, and this is San Francisco. Make of all this what you will.
With an ever-expanding human footprint on the environment, I feel something of a moral imperative to hunt for game management purposes (plus it's a ton of fun), but I don't have strongly negative feelings about people who choose not to participate; they may not have the opportunity or simply not enjoy it, so as long as there are plenty of us who do, it's OK.
If you've seen the way MEGAFARMS (CAFO's) disgustingly treat animals of all sorts, you'd become an activist for hunters immediately.
Fair chase is the most humane and safest method of acquiring meat for consumption.
If hormones, pesticides and drugs are on your menu...then the factory farms have what you desire, and can be found in every grocery store chain.
I think it's more ethical than animals that are farmed in horrible conditions. Hunting is natural - every carnivorous animal does it. It produces better meat, and the animal's live better too. And you get exercise.
'; Society will forever Judge Hunters by their Compassion for the Animals that they Hunt for and Harvest.'; Hunting is Fun and Enjoyable, Killing is Neither fun or Enjoyable.*..All Life is Precious to us True Hunters.*
Morality has nothing to do with hunting of fishing. Unless...you are stealing animals from private land without permission, or breaking some laws, or you do them in the nude maybe......
Its weird when people say ';Unless you are going to eat it, it is not needed';... But we play videogames, watch movies, read books.... which are not at all needed for survival.
Do you want to eat..?
If not i guess you dont have to fish or hunt.
I think that it is unnecessary, immoral, and unfair to the animal.
We are on top of the food chain, so why should we feel bad about hunting and fishing? What do people think about the morality of hunting and fishing?
I see less morality issues with hunting/fishing for sport and food, than I do with buying meat from the supermarket. Hunting for sport and food involves taking a wild animal from it's natural habitat, and that is about it. Buying from the supermarket means that the animal was raised to produce the most meat, for the least cost. You can guess what that means for the poor animal...
Now there are some hunters that go shoot just to kill stuff, and I'm not talking about eradicating predators or vermin. That kind of ';hunting'; has some moral issues to talk about.
What do I think the morality of hunting and fishing? I believe that it is more moral to harvest animals from nature and consume them as did are ancestors, that to let politics run what is rightfully human nature. We were designed to hunt, and have done it for thousands of years, and w have became increasingly more humane in doing it. The people that say its not moral, are the ones that would band hunting saying they are doing what is best, but ultimately are the ones clear cutting forest for new shopping malls, or build houses in the middle of the forest. I ask you this, is it more human to harvest a animal humanly, feed or family with high quality meat, or let “conservationist” destroy forest and kill many animals with cars, which is such a waste. Hunters are the best conservationist on the planet, their contributions, which include finances from hunting licenses, and sporting goods (taxes on which are used for conservation), and so on, accompanied with harvesting animals and protecting habitat, do far more than politicians or city slickers will ever do.
Morality is a human invention and is subject to the culture that you ask the question in
Hunger was invented by God and is subject only to the natural need to survive
Morality has nothing to do with hunting anymore than it has to do with whether or not you are a meat eater
The only morality involved is the method that you use to take the animal amnd that as I said earlier is subject to the whims of your culture
Hunting and fishing in an ethical ,humane manner helps control wild life populations while giving many people wholesome recreation. It also provides alot of food for people who just like wild game, as well as for needy people. Hunters donate tons of meat every year to be distributed to needy families. God put us on this earth to be stewards over it as well as masters over the animals. He also put em here for us to eat. As long as hunting and fishing are done ethically, with the idea of quick humane kills it is extremely moral and what we are supposed t do.
About 80 to 90 percent of people hold little or no opinion about hunting, as long as it is done under the guidelines set by state and federal wildlife agencies. The remaining 10 to 20 percent are split evenly between hunters and anti-hunters.
As for the morality of hunting, humans are part of nature. We have altered the natural order of nature and now the only viable tool for controlling wildlife populations is hunting. Many anti-hunting groups advocate birth control or relocation, but these efforts have been shown to be too expensive or nearly impossible to do. It is our duty to maintain wildlife populations at healthy level. Hunters have done this by harvesting the surplus animals and contributing billions of dollars to conservation efforts. These efforts have benefited game and non-game species. NO anti-hunting groups have ever given anything beneficial to conserving wildlife populations.
A true hunter eats what he/she kills and hunts in a legal manner; observing all safety rules, game laws, and striving for a quick and clean kill to reduce or eliminate any suffering by the animal. There are slobs out there who are breaking the rules and committing unsafe and unethical acts. These people are not hunters, they are slobs. Their actions are not condoned by the rest of us.
It would seem as though many people think we are above nature; that we are not part of nature. Non-hunters observe nature while hunters participate in nature.
The same goes for fishing.
So, the act of hunting is neither moral, nor immoral.
Morality has nothing to do with hunting or fishing. The way I see it,as sophisticated, intelligent,and evolved we the human species may have become we still started out as any other omnivore. All creatures in our world have one inborn purpose to their existence. That being to recreate by populating our environment with as many representative of their species as possible. Left alone to her own devices nature has a way of balancing her self out. Unfortunately she needs a little help from us, the superior species in maintaining some of those balances. That is for many reasons a few being we are too successful in our inborn purpose, resulting in encroachment and distruction of some habitats, etc. just to name a few.There are many other reasons nature needs our help but that's for another day. Back to the topic, for a species to prosper they need to be able to survive first. Our basic instincts born into us over millions of years taught us how to survive. The best of the species did indeed survive long enough to fulfill their desires to recreate while weaker or less fortunate ones provided the means for other species to survive by becoming their sustenance. So in a nut shell I am answering a primevel need. Do I enjoy watching another animal draw it's last breath? Deep down sometimes there is feeling of sadness,But most times there is strong sense of satisfaction that a million years ago I would be eating this day. So all I can tell you, is that for me, hunting, and fishing were just two ways we learned over millions of years to sustain our exsistence. I will never be ashamed of, or deny the need to answer the basic instincts that have been engrained into our species.
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: hunting
Pursuit of game animals, principally as sport. To early humans hunting was a necessity, and it remained so in many societies until recently. The development of agriculture made hunting less necessary as a sole life support, but game was still pursued in order to protect crops, flocks, or herds, as well as for food. Weapons now commonly used in hunting include the rifle, shotgun, and the bow and arrow, and methods include stalking, still-hunting (lying in wait), tracking, driving, and calling. Dogs are sometimes employed to track, flush, or capture prey. In Europe much of the land once hunted upon was owned by the aristocracy, and gamekeepers were employed to regulate the amount of game that could be hunted in a given area. By the 1800s the land hunted upon was not or had never been privately owned, and there began to develop a ';tragedy of the commons,'; in that no one hunter had any motive to limit the number of animals killed; certain species were hunted to, or very close to, extinction. To counter this development, ethical codes were established that give the quarry a fair chance to escape; attempts were made to minimize the suffering of wounded game; and game laws, licensing, and limited hunting seasons were established to protect game stocks. For instance, a modern license may authorize a hunter to kill only two deer during the brief season for deer, and he or she must present a kill to a game warden who will then document and tag the animal. There are often penalties and fines for being found with an animal that is not so marked.
Hunting and fishing do not in any way shape or form bring morality into question. Both pursuits are activities that we humans have engaged in since we stood on two legs. I hunt and fish and trap. I follow the rules laid down by my state and federal government. Morality has nothing to do with any of these human activities. Animals and fish are not human. They do not possess human qualities. They are animals, nothing more, nothing less. They may be utilized and consumed by man.
Madison-
There are some things that I feel that most folks who have never hunted do not understand. Morality has nothing to do with hunting. I know many folks in my church that enjoy hunting. I think folks confuse making a humane kill in the field with morality.
Most hunters use a rifle that has a large enough caliber to make the kill quick and clean on the first shot. Make no mistake, there is a significant amount of skill required to make these long distance shots at targets that are often on the move.
I have witnessed hunters in my years that have been abusive to animals that have been quarried by them. Trust me when I say there is nothing that makes my more angry when I see this happen. But, let me state a fact. Those incidents are very rare, and anytime I have seen this behavior, I have made a b-line or those folks trucks to record license plate numbers for report to Fish and Game Officers. In the years that I have been hunting, this has only happened twice.
I think what is not understood about harvesting of any animals is the fact that we are so used to purchasing or chicken, beef, fish, lamb, pork or any other product from our supermarkets. This detaches us from the reality that these animals provide our food.
When I lived with my parents, we operated a small subsistance farm. Mainly chickens. The chickens provided meat and eggs for our family. One per we would purchase a Pig and a Steer for slaughter. This provided the remainder of the meat we would use for the year. Fishing was done on a fairly regular basis, and this was always a welcome change.
But let me state this. It was always hard to kill the animals for slaughter, but it was something that had to be done for our family. Additional animals like rabbits wer hunted from my father's property, along with Phesants, Quail and Dove. All make excellent meals by the way.
All of these animals were dispatched in a completely humaine manner and rendered immediately.
Some may not agree, but hunting is a natural extension of the Agriculture Industry. As you can research, the Department of Fish and Game allow hunting and license for it. All of the major game animals also require Harvest Tags for the animals being taken during their open seasons. There are some animals that do not have a specific season, but this is mainly because they are animals are considered a menace, and therefore there is no limit on the amount of animals that may be taken.
Two that fall into this category in California are Wild Pigs and Coyote. This is because their infant mortality rate is nearly 0%, and the give birth to litters of animals like many rodents. However they are large enough, they have few natural predators, and to keep the population in check, hunting is the only option.
One of the sources that I would recommend that you explore is the State of California Department of Fish and Game. If you do not live here in this state, you should have a Fish and Game site available.
Sorry for being a little long winded, but there was quite a bit to answer in your question.
And... finally you ask about morality in this use of animals???
My dad and I were also thieves. How?
We also raised Honey Bees for their Honey and Wax. This is really nothing more than symbiotic theft. They make the honey and wax, and may dad and I take it and sell it. The only thing we provide for the bees is shelter and care.
Good luck with your report.
Hunting and fishing have nothing to do with morality. Animals do not have souls, they have no rights, they do not understand their existence. Hence, they are only suitable as food for us. I think that hunters and fisherman should be efficient and humane when they harvest game, but beyond that, more power to 'em.
fishing is widely accepted.
but you'll find that most people are against hunting.
granted most of these people have never held or shot any type of firearm.
some misguided and foolish people believe that ';guns'; are evil.
I don't believe any man or woman should be able to tell another woman what she can and cannot do to her own body.
no man or woman should be able to tell you what rifle or shotgun you can and cannot buy or own.
I don't agree with shooting many animals but I will fight for your right to do it as long as you do it legally and safely.
I have hunted all my life, and I'm 34. Growing up on a cotton farm my family didn't have much money. So basically hunting was a way of life. We would never shoot more than we could eat. We always hunted for deer, squirrel, dove, rabbit, pheasant. My dad always taught me to respect the animals, and thank god for providing us with food on our table. The bad thing about it though is you have people going out and killing anything that moves. It really ruins it for the people that pay the money for a license, and only shoot what they can eat. We always would save our money to buy a fishing license, hunting license and deer tag. That was around a hundred dollars back then for all of that. Now it is more.
The mortality of hunting only applies if the Brady Bunch, and Clintonites get there way.
Hunting, my family and myself, is a way of life.
We don't buy meat from the grocery store unless we have a guest over that does not like game meat. All of the meat we consume is wild game. We eat venison, hog, dove, duck, rabbit, quail.
Most of the the Texas Fish and Game Department's budget, 53% of it comes from from licensing and permits. So given that, if they outlawed hunting then the state would loose 53% of its conservation budget.
Every living creature must die.
I think it is much more honest to be directly involved in this than to pick up some pink strofoam plastic wrapped meat at the store, totally divoced from the fact that animals died to provide that food.
I also think that when a human being particiaptes directly it the food chain, looks at the death he has caused so that he and his family may eat, it connects man to nature in a way I cannot describe any more than a woman can describe to a childless man what childbirth and the love she feels at that instant for the baby are like. I further believe that interacting with life and death, seeing the full circle, helps humans better deal with their own eventual mortality.
Every time we kill to live, we are reminded of our ultimate fate.
I personally see nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, so long as the game is used for food purposes.
i dont hunt, i fish tho,
i also dont eat red meat so why would i kill it?
basicly i fee that yes hunting is something that needs to be done in order to provide food but if its just something to do for fun thats sick and so wrong its not even right.
Right now, according to Fox News, a wealthy out of state hunter has just checked into a local hotel for the coming deer/ boar season. He legally possessed 2 rifles and 2 handguns, with ammo. As a hunter, I must say this is not unusual, other than the guy being wealthy. But he was immediately arrested and is now in jail. Why? Because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also lives in that hotel, and she is an anti-gun Democrat, and this is San Francisco. Make of all this what you will.
With an ever-expanding human footprint on the environment, I feel something of a moral imperative to hunt for game management purposes (plus it's a ton of fun), but I don't have strongly negative feelings about people who choose not to participate; they may not have the opportunity or simply not enjoy it, so as long as there are plenty of us who do, it's OK.
If you've seen the way MEGAFARMS (CAFO's) disgustingly treat animals of all sorts, you'd become an activist for hunters immediately.
Fair chase is the most humane and safest method of acquiring meat for consumption.
If hormones, pesticides and drugs are on your menu...then the factory farms have what you desire, and can be found in every grocery store chain.
I think it's more ethical than animals that are farmed in horrible conditions. Hunting is natural - every carnivorous animal does it. It produces better meat, and the animal's live better too. And you get exercise.
'; Society will forever Judge Hunters by their Compassion for the Animals that they Hunt for and Harvest.'; Hunting is Fun and Enjoyable, Killing is Neither fun or Enjoyable.*..All Life is Precious to us True Hunters.*
Morality has nothing to do with hunting of fishing. Unless...you are stealing animals from private land without permission, or breaking some laws, or you do them in the nude maybe......
Its weird when people say ';Unless you are going to eat it, it is not needed';... But we play videogames, watch movies, read books.... which are not at all needed for survival.
Do you want to eat..?
If not i guess you dont have to fish or hunt.
I think that it is unnecessary, immoral, and unfair to the animal.
What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
NO! I don't want to kill an elephant, I don't think anyone should shoot them or hunt them, I think they should be protected. I am simply asking this from a ballistics standpoint!What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
Well you should be assured they are protected, and heavily game managed on strict licencing.A lot of fees for shooting one(around $10,000-20,000) goes to the park to fight poachers, and pay for more wardens.
As funny as it sounds while hunters did originally almost wipe out elephants 100 years ago, it is now hunters saving them from illegal poachers.
A lot of the countries who refused to make strict hunting legal, lost their elephants to poachers, starvation and even minefields(left overs from all the african wars which kill millions of african animals each year)
The reason is the only a park with a lot of money can fix these problems.The average african country is literally too poor to do it themselves.
As to which guns first I'll address some of the other replies.
The 50BMG will kill an elephant but is not the best to use, in fact is is pretty useless. To shoot elephant you may need to be waist deep in long grass, or even standing in a stream, or on a steep slope.A gun like the 50 BMG that you need to lie down to fire is obviously no good. Even if you can shoulder fire it, it is very heavy, and very long in the barrel, and not something you want to carry for 10 miles following elephant.
The 405 winchester is no good for elephant. Bullets to short and stubby. Its okay for most big game except african dangerous game.
The most commonly used rifle for elephant, and the legal minimum is the 375H%26amp;H. It fires a .375 calibre 300gn(about 3/4 ounce) bullet at around 2500fps.
There are many other calibres used such as the 458 winchester magnum, 416 remington, the 378, 416 and 460 weatherby magnums, the olden day 450, 500 and 600 nitro and many others.
They all have some common requirements.
1.Bullets that have a lot of weight for their calibre, in other words they are quite long.
2. Bullets that are either totally solid or have a full metal jacket so they do not deform or break up upon impact.
3.Bullets that have round or blunt noses, since pointed solids will tend to destablise in flesh and veer off course badly(another reason the 50BMG is not a good choice since 90% of its ammunition is pointed).
4.Velocities of at least 1950fps and up to around 3000fps, though generally 2200-2450fps is considered all you need.
For elephant the toughest shot is the frontal brain shot, for which the above bullets are needed to get through the 18+'; of cellular bone structure. This is also the only shot that will kill them during a charge so it is the most important shot for your own safety.
Side brain shots are a lot easier and can be handled with many other rifles. It is also possible to kill elephant successful with lung and heart shots, though the elephant will not die straight away. It may take from a few seconds to a miniute or more to bleed out and you will have to follow it while it does.
So once again while a lot of guns will kill an elephant some of the time, the elephant guns mentioned above are the ones that will kill it every time, and can be used quickly from most hunting angles.
hope this helped.What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
In order to realistically have a shot at killing an elephant, you need a large caliber rifle loaded with solid jacket bullets. Elephant skulls are incredibly thick and strong. It is not unheard of for a frontal brain shot to ricochet off an elephant's skull.
Any of the following rounds will kill an elephant with a proper shot:
.416 Rigby
.458 WinMag
.458 Lott
.450 3 1/4
.577 Tyrannosaur
.600 Nitro Express
.700 Nitro Express
The occasions are very rare now, but they still need to be killed once in a while.
The best for general purposes was worked out long ago: the large-bore double rifle custom fit to your frame. Whether it's chambered for 470 Nitro Express or something a bit bigger or smaller isn't so important. The 450 NE was felt to be more than satisfactory before the 45 caliber was banned in the British colonies, and if you could find one of those old shooters, it would be just as good now.
WOW, 1 elephant hunter!
Make a fist then look at it.Thats the size of its brain.%26gt;30 cals were killing elephant once the sweet-spot was located even the 6.5 was used.
Everything else was for penetration w/ knock down force where the side shot could be taken after Dumbo was knocked down.
I watched a massive Ivory Bull take a double tap from a 500NE in the top at full charge.He stayed down for about 4 seconds and started to stand up. It was real-time slow motion cause he was so massive and once he got one leg extended everybody started to blast him.(Security?/Porters?)
Pick one of these.*..%26lt;%26gt; 405 Winchester, 375 H%26amp;H, 416 Remington Magnum, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum.*...According to the Winchester Product Service Ballistics Manuel for 2008.*
If you would take the time to learn about elephant hunting as it is currently being managed, you might find that hunting is why the elephant has not been exterminated. Wise up.
The .50 cal BMG would get the job done but i suspect any of the big bore rifles - 416 Rigby, 475 H%26amp;H etc. have and will kill elephants.
Kind of a silly question from an environmental type.
Walter Bell killed over 1000 elephants in his time and his favorite rifle was a 7x57 Mauser. Takes pretty big brass ones to shoot elephant with a 7mm Mauser.
375 H %26amp; H
416 RIGBY
500 NITRO
All of these will do the job as far as elephant hunting goes
.500 Nitro Single Shotdiscount makeup
Well you should be assured they are protected, and heavily game managed on strict licencing.A lot of fees for shooting one(around $10,000-20,000) goes to the park to fight poachers, and pay for more wardens.
As funny as it sounds while hunters did originally almost wipe out elephants 100 years ago, it is now hunters saving them from illegal poachers.
A lot of the countries who refused to make strict hunting legal, lost their elephants to poachers, starvation and even minefields(left overs from all the african wars which kill millions of african animals each year)
The reason is the only a park with a lot of money can fix these problems.The average african country is literally too poor to do it themselves.
As to which guns first I'll address some of the other replies.
The 50BMG will kill an elephant but is not the best to use, in fact is is pretty useless. To shoot elephant you may need to be waist deep in long grass, or even standing in a stream, or on a steep slope.A gun like the 50 BMG that you need to lie down to fire is obviously no good. Even if you can shoulder fire it, it is very heavy, and very long in the barrel, and not something you want to carry for 10 miles following elephant.
The 405 winchester is no good for elephant. Bullets to short and stubby. Its okay for most big game except african dangerous game.
The most commonly used rifle for elephant, and the legal minimum is the 375H%26amp;H. It fires a .375 calibre 300gn(about 3/4 ounce) bullet at around 2500fps.
There are many other calibres used such as the 458 winchester magnum, 416 remington, the 378, 416 and 460 weatherby magnums, the olden day 450, 500 and 600 nitro and many others.
They all have some common requirements.
1.Bullets that have a lot of weight for their calibre, in other words they are quite long.
2. Bullets that are either totally solid or have a full metal jacket so they do not deform or break up upon impact.
3.Bullets that have round or blunt noses, since pointed solids will tend to destablise in flesh and veer off course badly(another reason the 50BMG is not a good choice since 90% of its ammunition is pointed).
4.Velocities of at least 1950fps and up to around 3000fps, though generally 2200-2450fps is considered all you need.
For elephant the toughest shot is the frontal brain shot, for which the above bullets are needed to get through the 18+'; of cellular bone structure. This is also the only shot that will kill them during a charge so it is the most important shot for your own safety.
Side brain shots are a lot easier and can be handled with many other rifles. It is also possible to kill elephant successful with lung and heart shots, though the elephant will not die straight away. It may take from a few seconds to a miniute or more to bleed out and you will have to follow it while it does.
So once again while a lot of guns will kill an elephant some of the time, the elephant guns mentioned above are the ones that will kill it every time, and can be used quickly from most hunting angles.
hope this helped.What's the best rifle to use for hunting an elephant?
In order to realistically have a shot at killing an elephant, you need a large caliber rifle loaded with solid jacket bullets. Elephant skulls are incredibly thick and strong. It is not unheard of for a frontal brain shot to ricochet off an elephant's skull.
Any of the following rounds will kill an elephant with a proper shot:
.416 Rigby
.458 WinMag
.458 Lott
.450 3 1/4
.577 Tyrannosaur
.600 Nitro Express
.700 Nitro Express
The occasions are very rare now, but they still need to be killed once in a while.
The best for general purposes was worked out long ago: the large-bore double rifle custom fit to your frame. Whether it's chambered for 470 Nitro Express or something a bit bigger or smaller isn't so important. The 450 NE was felt to be more than satisfactory before the 45 caliber was banned in the British colonies, and if you could find one of those old shooters, it would be just as good now.
WOW, 1 elephant hunter!
Make a fist then look at it.Thats the size of its brain.%26gt;30 cals were killing elephant once the sweet-spot was located even the 6.5 was used.
Everything else was for penetration w/ knock down force where the side shot could be taken after Dumbo was knocked down.
I watched a massive Ivory Bull take a double tap from a 500NE in the top at full charge.He stayed down for about 4 seconds and started to stand up. It was real-time slow motion cause he was so massive and once he got one leg extended everybody started to blast him.(Security?/Porters?)
Pick one of these.*..%26lt;%26gt; 405 Winchester, 375 H%26amp;H, 416 Remington Magnum, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum.*...According to the Winchester Product Service Ballistics Manuel for 2008.*
If you would take the time to learn about elephant hunting as it is currently being managed, you might find that hunting is why the elephant has not been exterminated. Wise up.
The .50 cal BMG would get the job done but i suspect any of the big bore rifles - 416 Rigby, 475 H%26amp;H etc. have and will kill elephants.
Kind of a silly question from an environmental type.
Walter Bell killed over 1000 elephants in his time and his favorite rifle was a 7x57 Mauser. Takes pretty big brass ones to shoot elephant with a 7mm Mauser.
375 H %26amp; H
416 RIGBY
500 NITRO
All of these will do the job as far as elephant hunting goes
.500 Nitro Single Shot
How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
Is it not about this time every election cycle that we see the Dems become pro-second admendment sending pics and telling storys about hunting. I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
or sticking their ugly mugs out the top of a tank?How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
What the 2nd ammendment is about is insecure gun fanatics
worshiping phallus symbols. That basically sums up the whole psychology of right wing weirdos who cant get a date.
Y'mean like Mitt Romney? Da man say he been a lifelong hunter but never held a hunting license in his life. Shhh! Be vewy, vewy quiet. Mitt's hunting wabbit! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Just like Elmer Fudd...
I hope they take Cheney with them
as soon as dick Cheney gets done hiding all the big bucks he is accused of stealing, it'll be a threesome in Hot Springs, but Cheney's shooting Jacket has been used before as is it true of his moss berg!
Well Hillary is from Arkansas, I think duck hunting is a step up from pig calling.
';...I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.';
....at least they know how to shoot straight, unlike most Republicans and even some Democrats in Washington these days.
I'm wondering how much B.S. they are going to spit in Texas in order to gain their votes.
Have you looked closely at Hillary's hands? Her fingers are webbed.
about 27 days
or sticking their ugly mugs out the top of a tank?How long till we start seeing pics of Hillary or Obama in camo going duck hunting?
What the 2nd ammendment is about is insecure gun fanatics
worshiping phallus symbols. That basically sums up the whole psychology of right wing weirdos who cant get a date.
Y'mean like Mitt Romney? Da man say he been a lifelong hunter but never held a hunting license in his life. Shhh! Be vewy, vewy quiet. Mitt's hunting wabbit! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Just like Elmer Fudd...
I hope they take Cheney with them
as soon as dick Cheney gets done hiding all the big bucks he is accused of stealing, it'll be a threesome in Hot Springs, but Cheney's shooting Jacket has been used before as is it true of his moss berg!
Well Hillary is from Arkansas, I think duck hunting is a step up from pig calling.
';...I find it funny that they think the second admendment is about duck hunting.';
....at least they know how to shoot straight, unlike most Republicans and even some Democrats in Washington these days.
I'm wondering how much B.S. they are going to spit in Texas in order to gain their votes.
Have you looked closely at Hillary's hands? Her fingers are webbed.
about 27 days
Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Not all gun owners are hunters and, strange as it may seem, all hunters are not gun owners. Hunters provide food and clothing for their families and the less fortunate, as well as preserve the balance in nature in our DESIGNATED hunting areas. Sure there are bad apples among us, but the president of PETA wears leather belts so knock it off.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
Because the right to hunt and own guns, goes right along with politics, if you arn't willing to fight for your right to own guns, then I suggest you find another hobby, one that doesn't involve a gun.Why are people talking about politics in the hunting forum?
Unfortunately many people have politicized hunting and gun ownership.
Some politics are related to hunting, there are lots of topics about hunting aside form the actual hunt.
Because the dam# panty-waisted liberals want to take away our guns!
because it always seems to be a debate in politics over gun control,how much hunting allowed on federal and state land and such.plus political activist groups like PETA want to disolve our rights to hunt and own firearms,if that isn't a direct connection I am not sure what else would qualify.
I'm not sure exactly what you're griping about, but where the two intersect, I don't see a problem. It's even eye-opening to me, because though I've heard about anti-hunters for decades, in my area I've never met any that I know of.
Kudos and Ditto!
What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I would like to get my son into hunting, squirell is the best starting point so. What gun? He has shot an adult size 12 guage 2 times but thouhgt it kicked too much. I like the 20 guage or should i get him a .22LR? 20 guage = better chance at getting squirell, .22 less kick , need better accuracy, but cant shoot out of tree just in case he misses. HelpWhat is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
well this is what my dad did to me and it works start him with a 20ga. then once he kills with it let him move up to the .22
PS. for the ones who say get him a .410 dont listen ask any exepert shotgun shooter a .410 is an exepert's gun due to the low amount of pellets (and if you knew that then it did no good telling you)What is the best gun to start a 9yr old out for squirell hunting?
I recomend a 410 or a .22
You have three choices # 1 A 22 Single shot Rifle%26gt;%26gt; #2 A 20 Gauge Shotgun%26gt;%26gt; #3 A over %26amp; under 22 LR %26amp; 20 Gauge combination.* I would choose single shot on both the Rifle or Shotgun.* No pumps or semi's
I too started hunting squirrel, with a .22. My first thought was to say a bolt action .22, and you sure can't go wrong there, but you know there a lot of advantages to a 20ga in tree hunting. You need to already be a pretty good shot to hit tree rat with a .22 and the 20ga is more forgiving and can be used for other game as well.
Heck, you could get him a Rossi Matched Pair Youth Model...changeable barrels in .22lr and 20ga and under $150 for the whole package.
EDIT: Heck JD I want a Savage 24 for under $300. I have been keeping an eye out for them and they go for some high dollars! I'm not even concerned with finish as I'll duracoat the metal. I want one in caliber for coyotes, .223 or so.
try a .410
Do you eat the squirels afterwards?
I am serious and do not mean that as a derogatory remark.
The 20 ga. shotgun also can fill the squirrel with so many pellet that the meat is not edible.The .22LR require more precise aiming and a steady hold to take the game. You already know that.
i d go with the 22 either a bolt or leveraction. i have had my marlin 39a for almost 30 years now, not a problem with it and either the bolt action or lever are a better choice for youth than semi auto, teaches them more control instead of just pulling trigger
i would suggest getting him a 4/10,not much kick to them at all
go with a 20 Gage pump or semi auto buy a youth model like an 870 or 500 in pumps because you can buy full size stocks for them later when he gets bigger and he will be able to use the gun his whole life on a variety of game
When I was that young my father got me a 410 and then a year or two later a 20 guage.
Get him a single shot bolt action .22. By having to get a bullet out of his pocket to reload after every shot he will become a better shot because he won't be thinking about follow up shots like he might is he uses a semi-automatic or even a bolt action with a magazine. He will learn to make every shot count, and learning the value of getting it right to start with will help him in other things in life. When he gets good with the single shot, get him a 10/22, and soon after that a bolt action .308 for deer. At that point I suggest a stainless steel/ synthetic stock Ruger 77 like the one I sometimes use. As for the .22, any decent single shot bolt action will do, and after he gets good with open sights put a scope on it for him and watch him get better.
.22 is perfect, or if hes a tough kid, a 410 shotgun. they dont kick bad, i was 10 when i got a 410 i loved it. it also has just enough kick to make you learn to suck that stalk up to your shoulder!
I agree with JD about the Savage Model 24, but I think the .410 shotgun is pretty worthless for hunting, go with a .22/20 gauge. I gave a backpacker model to my godson as his first personally owned firearm.
If you want more information on the great little combo guns, pop over to the Savage 24 Discussion Forum at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/180203.ht鈥?/a>
Another possible option would be an H%26amp;R 1871 Pardner Youth in 28 gauge, if you can find them. They are light, handy, and mild of recoil, but they are several orders of magnitude better than the .410 for a youngster learning to shoot and hunt. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/鈥?/a>
Doc
OK..On a more serious note.(After reading the negative responses)I think you are right about the choice of a 20 gauge, but I have a suggestion. I tell all of my customers that have children just starting out hunting like yours, To try to find a Used Savage Model 24 series 22/410 or 22/20 gauge rifle/ shotgun combination. They are pretty common and can be found on many auction sites for under $280..The ';best'; of both worlds.....Many Dealers like myself have access to websites that offer these guns on a regular basis for sales to Dealers looking for a specific caliber of weapon or a specific Model. This service is usually free. If that is a difficult thing to find then pretty much any 20 Gauge Shotgun will do the trick. This day and age they all come with choke tubes for different chokes and barrel lengths and of course at all price ranges from a bolt action to a pump action or semi-automatic. I would also look to buy a shotgun that is versatile enough for your son to ';grow into'; meaning something he will be able to use more than just a few years and outgrow. It would be better to spend a few dollars more for a gun you know he'll cherish and use for years to come. Good Luck and SAFE Hunting! Thank you for continuing our Hunting heritage thru teaching and hunting with your children!
Now this brings back memories (I don't hunt anymore...busy life), I was 8 yrs old and my dad gave/loaned me his .22 rifle (don't remember what brand or exact model). First he taught me safety (where to point it, how to walk with it, load it, unload it, how to aim, etc.) then we went target practicing a couple of times (I remember yelling did I hit it, did I hit it) and then he, my brother, and myself went squirrel hunting. Didn't get anything but it's one of my best memories with my dad. Anyway, I would vote for the .22 rifle not the 12 gauge. I remember thnking this rifle is a lot bigger than my brother's BB gun...just make sure and have fun and remember this is the time to emphasize safety with your boy, the stuff you teach him now will help turn him into a responsible gun owner and hunter.
I would go with the 20ga. He would be more likely to hit a squirrel with it. That is a small target and sometimes he will have a hard time getting a clear shot with a 22. I hope you have a great season with your son.
Go with a Rossi combo single shot. It comes with one .22lr barrel and one 20 gauge barrel. It would be perfect for someone his age. But if you do get a pretty good recoil pad. I have the .22lr/.410 ga combo and it only weighs about 3-4lbs. It kicks alot more than even my rem 870 home defense model. And it the .22lr/20 ga would also be good if you ever go bird hunting.
if you plan on eventually hunting all other small game, i use a 12 guauge single shot but for a younger, smaller (I'm 5'5';, 150 lbs) i would get him a 20 gauge single shot. i know people use auto loaders for small game and upland, but if you want to teach him right teach him to only need one shot and make it count. a 20 gauge can also be used even when he is older. it will do fine with squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, quail and turkey in the fall. plus, the recoil is tolerable.
a .22 LR is not a good squirrel/rabbit gun despite popular belief. you don't want to shoot a bullet that can go up to 2 miles if shot at the right angle. and for boosting a young hunters morale, get him a 20 gauge that will give him a better chance of harvesting game. and besides, you shouldn't take a shot at moving game with a single projectile like a .22.
whatever you do, good luck to him and good luck to you as well.
What!
Hes 9!
Don't give him a gun full stop!
I see I got lots of thumbs down, that's because you are all American and believe its OK to give guns to kids!
Give him a camera
I would say a 50. cal at the very least maybe even a rocket propelled grenade launcher. If you can try teaching the boy how to use an atomic bomb.
What are the regulations pertaining to assault rifle hunting in Arkansas and surrounding areas?
Such as Oklahoma,Kansas, Missouri
I am talking about deer mostly, and a semi auto rifleWhat are the regulations pertaining to assault rifle hunting in Arkansas and surrounding areas?
It is not the assault rifle but the size of the magazine that is the problem. I believe it can hold no more than 5 rounds. In most states it must be larger than .22. Google it for each state. I just did to answer a question about Oklahoma. hunting laws and got the info.What are the regulations pertaining to assault rifle hunting in Arkansas and surrounding areas?
Go to the Arkansas AWRA site and they will have an answer for you.
In Tennessee they changed the caliber to .223 and larger but you still have to use a magazine that holds five rounds or less.
Good luck!
In Arkansas, you can use one if you don't mind the real hunters' laughing at you.
Most of the places require to use no smaller than a 24 Calb.
Bullet . A semi auto rifle is legal in most states
I am talking about deer mostly, and a semi auto rifleWhat are the regulations pertaining to assault rifle hunting in Arkansas and surrounding areas?
It is not the assault rifle but the size of the magazine that is the problem. I believe it can hold no more than 5 rounds. In most states it must be larger than .22. Google it for each state. I just did to answer a question about Oklahoma. hunting laws and got the info.What are the regulations pertaining to assault rifle hunting in Arkansas and surrounding areas?
Go to the Arkansas AWRA site and they will have an answer for you.
In Tennessee they changed the caliber to .223 and larger but you still have to use a magazine that holds five rounds or less.
Good luck!
In Arkansas, you can use one if you don't mind the real hunters' laughing at you.
Most of the places require to use no smaller than a 24 Calb.
Bullet . A semi auto rifle is legal in most states
Can a treeing walker be trained for squirrel hunting?
I'm getting a female treeing walker pup and I wanna try training it for squirrel and coon. Can it hunt squirrels or just coons?Can a treeing walker be trained for squirrel hunting?
It makes an excellent squirrel dog, and can be trained to hunt coon at night and squirrel in the day time. I have friends that have used them is just such a manner. They are a great hunting dog. They are a fast hunter and will roam pretty far when hunting.It will be good exercise to keep up with her. But the females are not as far ranging as the male. Congratulations on the pup you're getting!Can a treeing walker be trained for squirrel hunting?
i have a walker male and i use him for coon hunting only. Most states have certain breeds that can hunt squirrels and big game. i would check with the game commission to see if they allow walkers to hunt squirrels in your state. Beagles are rabbit and squirrel dogs. It might not be a good idea to allow the dog to hunt more than one animal, because then it could turn into a junk dog and run off game.Good luck with your new dog.
It makes an excellent squirrel dog, and can be trained to hunt coon at night and squirrel in the day time. I have friends that have used them is just such a manner. They are a great hunting dog. They are a fast hunter and will roam pretty far when hunting.It will be good exercise to keep up with her. But the females are not as far ranging as the male. Congratulations on the pup you're getting!Can a treeing walker be trained for squirrel hunting?
i have a walker male and i use him for coon hunting only. Most states have certain breeds that can hunt squirrels and big game. i would check with the game commission to see if they allow walkers to hunt squirrels in your state. Beagles are rabbit and squirrel dogs. It might not be a good idea to allow the dog to hunt more than one animal, because then it could turn into a junk dog and run off game.Good luck with your new dog.
What factory load would you suggest for deer hunting with my 357 mag?
Looking to use my 357 mag for deer hunting this year. I've been told it's a little on the light side for deer. I shoot pretty good out to 40 yards with the red dot scope so I'll probably make that my limit. I have a 6 1/2'; revolver.What factory load would you suggest for deer hunting with my 357 mag?
It's not to under powered to 75yds in capable hands. I've killed a couple myself with the 38spl out to the 35,40yd marks using 125 +P and 158grn hollow points. In the mag the 158's would be great with a good wallop. The advantage you also have is using the 38's in the 357 since it's interchangable. 38 in 357, but not 357 in 38 because of the pressure difference. Sounds like you have a good set up at moderate ranges. Good luckWhat factory load would you suggest for deer hunting with my 357 mag?
I too enjoy hunting Deer with revolvers. I mainly use a 44 mag but a 357 will get the job done nicely as well.
I have taken deer with the following rounds shot from my Ruger GP100 6'; Revolver.
Hornady 357 MAG 140 GR Leverloution - Built for Lever Rifles but extremely accurate from Revolvers
Hornady 357 MAG 140 GR HP/XTP
Links to both
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session鈥?/a>
I have used the .357 on deer many times and I load 140 XTP's for Deer/Antelope. 125's aren't nearly up to the challange. Factory 158 Soft Points or Hollow Points will do just fine. Sounds like you know your limitations so thats good. I have found the .357 works to around 100 yds. but shot placement is critical at that distance so I wouldn't recomend it. PS I also use a red dot sight on my 6'; 686 S%26amp;W and love it.
Winchester 180gr Partition Gold HP possibly 158gr JSP or JHP
Remington Core-Lokt 165gr or 180gr SJHP again possibly the 158gr JHP or JSP
Federal 180gr JHP, 180gr CastCore, 140 Barnes Expander, and maybe the 158gr Hydra Shok
Hornady 140gr Leverevolution, 158gr HP/XTP
Buffalo Bore
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=p鈥?/a>
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=p鈥?/a>
For Best Performance use the 158 grain semi jacketed soft flat point bullet.* Keep your kill shot within a maximum of 50 yards or closer.*
If I were going to hunt with a .357, I would use the 160-180 grain flat point or soft point. Most .357 hollow points weren't made to punch through tough hide, and may open up prematurely.
I have used 158 gr Magtech soft points in the past. I plan on using 158 gr hard cast bullets now since I started reloading.discount makeup
It's not to under powered to 75yds in capable hands. I've killed a couple myself with the 38spl out to the 35,40yd marks using 125 +P and 158grn hollow points. In the mag the 158's would be great with a good wallop. The advantage you also have is using the 38's in the 357 since it's interchangable. 38 in 357, but not 357 in 38 because of the pressure difference. Sounds like you have a good set up at moderate ranges. Good luckWhat factory load would you suggest for deer hunting with my 357 mag?
I too enjoy hunting Deer with revolvers. I mainly use a 44 mag but a 357 will get the job done nicely as well.
I have taken deer with the following rounds shot from my Ruger GP100 6'; Revolver.
Hornady 357 MAG 140 GR Leverloution - Built for Lever Rifles but extremely accurate from Revolvers
Hornady 357 MAG 140 GR HP/XTP
Links to both
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session鈥?/a>
I have used the .357 on deer many times and I load 140 XTP's for Deer/Antelope. 125's aren't nearly up to the challange. Factory 158 Soft Points or Hollow Points will do just fine. Sounds like you know your limitations so thats good. I have found the .357 works to around 100 yds. but shot placement is critical at that distance so I wouldn't recomend it. PS I also use a red dot sight on my 6'; 686 S%26amp;W and love it.
Winchester 180gr Partition Gold HP possibly 158gr JSP or JHP
Remington Core-Lokt 165gr or 180gr SJHP again possibly the 158gr JHP or JSP
Federal 180gr JHP, 180gr CastCore, 140 Barnes Expander, and maybe the 158gr Hydra Shok
Hornady 140gr Leverevolution, 158gr HP/XTP
Buffalo Bore
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=p鈥?/a>
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=p鈥?/a>
For Best Performance use the 158 grain semi jacketed soft flat point bullet.* Keep your kill shot within a maximum of 50 yards or closer.*
If I were going to hunt with a .357, I would use the 160-180 grain flat point or soft point. Most .357 hollow points weren't made to punch through tough hide, and may open up prematurely.
I have used 158 gr Magtech soft points in the past. I plan on using 158 gr hard cast bullets now since I started reloading.
What's the proper way to clean a hunting knife?
I have a Buck knife that I use for hunting, it's a lock back. There's dried blood and dirt on the inside where I can't reach. How do I clean it, and overall restore the knife's look? It's two ends are gold color and look stained and have fingerprints on them. I just need to know how to clean it so I can use it again.What's the proper way to clean a hunting knife?
First, sharpen your knife . Sharpening produces grit which can fall down in the hinge and creat friction, so lets get the sharpening out of the way.
Next..Use a bit of bleach to clean out the blood and such from inside. The bleach will break down the blood. There are other solvents that will do that too.
Next wash it with soap and water or just drop it in the dishwasher
Follow that up by a penetrating oil to clear out any dirt stuck to previous grease.
Ok.. those bolsters are brass.. a little brass polish will make them shine, and then spray them with a bit of laquer to reduce the future tarnish
Now wash it gently to get rid of any leftover cr*p and then either oil it up or use wd40 on the hinges and the lock release.
WIpe it all down with a clean paper towel and you are done.
.What's the proper way to clean a hunting knife?
The knife you are refering to is a classic. Its been around I know for at least 40 years. WD-40 is a good cleaning, lubricator and preservitive for just about any thing. It will work on your knife. Lay your knife on a rag with the blade open and the opening facing upwards. Spray the WD-40 inside and let it soak. After it has soaked hit it again and this time turn it face downinto the rag so it drains. If you want it took shine again, use a product called Brasso on the gold areas - they are brass. But, again the brass will tarnish shortly after, so I wouldn't bother cleaning it. Now if you can find them, there is a leather case these originaly came with, or you can have one made. Make sure you wipe the knife down completely as you don't want it slipping in your hand. The blade for most quality knives is a high grade carbon steel which will rust if not taken care of.
Good luck on your knife.
Take it apart and then clean the WHOLE blade with some WD-40 or another household oil. And polish it real good.
Open it up and put it in the washing machine along with the silver ware and dishes.
First, sharpen your knife . Sharpening produces grit which can fall down in the hinge and creat friction, so lets get the sharpening out of the way.
Next..Use a bit of bleach to clean out the blood and such from inside. The bleach will break down the blood. There are other solvents that will do that too.
Next wash it with soap and water or just drop it in the dishwasher
Follow that up by a penetrating oil to clear out any dirt stuck to previous grease.
Ok.. those bolsters are brass.. a little brass polish will make them shine, and then spray them with a bit of laquer to reduce the future tarnish
Now wash it gently to get rid of any leftover cr*p and then either oil it up or use wd40 on the hinges and the lock release.
WIpe it all down with a clean paper towel and you are done.
.What's the proper way to clean a hunting knife?
The knife you are refering to is a classic. Its been around I know for at least 40 years. WD-40 is a good cleaning, lubricator and preservitive for just about any thing. It will work on your knife. Lay your knife on a rag with the blade open and the opening facing upwards. Spray the WD-40 inside and let it soak. After it has soaked hit it again and this time turn it face downinto the rag so it drains. If you want it took shine again, use a product called Brasso on the gold areas - they are brass. But, again the brass will tarnish shortly after, so I wouldn't bother cleaning it. Now if you can find them, there is a leather case these originaly came with, or you can have one made. Make sure you wipe the knife down completely as you don't want it slipping in your hand. The blade for most quality knives is a high grade carbon steel which will rust if not taken care of.
Good luck on your knife.
Take it apart and then clean the WHOLE blade with some WD-40 or another household oil. And polish it real good.
Open it up and put it in the washing machine along with the silver ware and dishes.
What do you vegans think of my hunting hobby?
I'm serious. I know that you don't like how animals are raised on farms and abused, but do you have anything against me killing deer quickly with a bullet and thinning out their population so that they do not starve to death?What do you vegans think of my hunting hobby?
First of all, North Carolina white tailed deer population are not starving and emaciated. Hunting permits are strictly controlled by N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission so the species isn't over hunted. You aren't very ';up to date'; on what's going on in your own state.....that's obvious..
Nevertheless, if you're talking about Chronic Wasting Disease, it's a transmissible neurological disease of deer and elk..... It's been around for a long time and isn't caused by overpopulation. You should probably educate yourself more.
So, with that being said..... I have no issues if you choose to hunt with a rifle or bow IF you intend to eat the animal and don't hunt purely for sport.....and IF you aren't one of those arrogant dumbazzes who doesn't take the time in the off season to ';hone'; his/her skill so the animal can be ';dropped'; immediately with a single shot, so to be able to kill as humanely as possible.
Somehow however, I get the sense that you may be the kind who shoots 4 and 5 times at a deer because you really don't know how to hunt.
A hunter doesn't hunt purely for the sport, he/she respects the life it's taking and does so in the easiest manner possible.
***Dude, you need to go find out about your deer population there b/c you're very wrong about them being in such dire straights... It's pretty easy to find this information... Go find it...
LOL!!
Good Grief........What do you vegans think of my hunting hobby?
Edit: Yes, its pretty shocking how animals are treated on many farms, even for something like milk (which cows can naturally produce once they are pregnant). If you hunt animals (assuming legally, of course), at least you are willing to directly face the reality behind where your food comes from, as opposed to detaching yourself from the process but eating the results. A bullet shot would be pretty painful but probably much more short-lived and less painful than many of the other methods used to kill animals.
Maybe you might want to consider why you are hunting in the first place. Do you know that the deer you kill are starving? Clearly this is a debatable issue for you, seeing that you are interested in others' opinions on it. If you are hunting because you would starve without the food obtained doing so, and if you can actually respect the animal you kill and use it appropriately (as the Native Americans did), that is a step higher than the cruel farming practices and I think thats a good thing already. In that case, I have nothing major against your hunting.
On the other hand, if you go hunting without any need, but rather ';just for fun'; or because you want to make a profit off their body parts, or simply enjoy killing animals (i.e. sadistic), I do hope you take up a less, um, callous hobby (to put it mildly). Think about it this way, would you like to live with the knowledge of having earned money via killing some innocent animal and selling its parts (e.g. horns)? Would you like an animal to have died/suffered in vain just to satisfy some desire to hunt? If these answers are no, well, I accept your hunting if you respect and properly use what you hunt, rather than waste it and leave dead bodies to rot. I may very well get some flack for this, but I think I understand where you are coming from.
If you have to shoot a deer, use a camera.
I would never kill an innocent animal, but if they were starving than a quick absolutely painless death would be okay. If you were hunting because you were starving and your family is poor and you can't afford a lot of food that would be okay. What wouldn't be okay would be if it were for fun. God i hate people who hunt for fun. The only people who should eat meat are the Native American's because they know how to respect it.
K I L L E R
Overpopulation happens. It happens sooner or later to all species and then some of them die out and the population goes back down to a more normal level. It's all part of a normal cycle. Just because there's an overpopulation now doesn't mean it'll be like that in 5 years or so.
Why would you kill an innocent animal? I mean, if you were attacked by a vicious bear or something, that's a different matter. But to sneak up on some dear and kill it without giving it a chance is just sick and wrong. We don't live in the 1800's. You don't have to kill animals for food. So now you just do it for fun?!
If you wanna kill something that's over-populated, try cockroaches. I won't miss them.
Well...not that your question got a rise out of me...but, I live in VA, NC neighbor to the North, and, like NC. we have tons of deer, and tons of woods and noone's starving. If you saw an emaciated deer, it was probably sick (like it had a parasite or virus)...that happens in the wild.
Since I haven't heard of there being any droughts in NC, I think you're just trying to justify killing deer in your own mind...BECAUSE, hunting is LEGAL IN NC, so hunt all you want...I dont have to like it, but America's purportedly a FREE COUNTRY, so....what's with the dumb question???
yea there is an overpopulation problem, i guess if you like to eat deer, its fine
I have nothing against hunting and I don't care if I get flamed for stating this. For every deer that someone eats, that's one less cow for the factory farms. And deer do cause many problems when they overpopulate, for themselves and for us. Thank you for obtaining your meat from a more ethical (and natural) source.
And you're right about feeding the deer too. It disturbs the ecosystem. Humans are also a part of the ecosystem in North America, like it or not. Native Americans helped keep the populations of deer and other game animals in check before the European settlers came, which really wasn't that long ago in the great scheme of things.
PS: I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a hunting section on answers. I think it might be under sports.
i am not against you personally, but i don't think that killing animals should be classified as a ';sport';.
well, i'm not going to applaud you for it, but i won't bust your balls about it either cause in the end we have two opinions that just aren't going to mesh well.
Try stamp collecting. If you're really concerned about overpopulation, shouldn't you be hunting people?
you can do whatever you want
but don't kill innocent animals.
you can feed them, then they won't starve
I love these v%26amp;v's that think if you go in the woods and try to feed ';bambie'; or ';winnie the pooh'; they will calmly come and eat out of thier hands, hellll maybe they would even have a conversation with them. such precious little harmless animals
Does anyone come to the hunting section of YA just to complain and annoy people? A lot of people do it here at Vegetarian/Vegan.
Just for laughs, I scanned 7 pages of the hunting section and the closest thing to a harassing question was one asking about using decoys, duck calls, etc; saying it was not sportsmanlike. I didn't see any questions like ';why do you kill Bambi'; or ';did you know a gun is really a detachable penis.';
I scanned 7 pages of VV section and found 13 questions that were clearly posted for the sake of harassment and to ask silly questions like ';what do vegetarians feed their pets';, ';if an animal was genetically engineered to feel no pain would you eat it'; ';how do I deconvert a vegetarian and turn him into a normal person'; ';what would a vegan do if he had to live in the wild'; etc. One person even gave himself the name of ';Anti Vegan.';
Personally, I don't bother with sections that don't interest me. Why can't you do the same? Some people don't agree with you--be a man and accept it.
I dont really care about it much at all. i could lie and say im to busy or this or that but in reality i just dont care.
kill animals, eat meat, take the karma and take the heart disease, it matters little to me.
so? big deal.
why should i think about what you do? i have more than enough things to think about during the day. if you need permission from vegans... well...
you don't have enough to do during the day.
It doesn't bother me when people hunt as long as they use the meat, and even the skin, etc, for their own purposes, especially if the species is overpopulated. I am not crazy about hunting for sport alone or just for the trophy.
I'm not a vegan, but predation is natural. As long as you kill what you eat, I don't know how anyone could come up with an intelligent opposition.
You do have a point that civilization has upset the balance of Nature and so things get out of whack and the populations of some animals boom and they do indeed end up starving if they overcrowd an area.
We had a problem in our local mountains with bark beetles. Environmentalists didn't want the trees to be cut down to try and control this pest and so it took over huge areas and now we have extreme fire hazards. People need to understand that we impact nature dramatically just by being here so we have to compensate. it's pretty much our duty, the way I see it.
Still, though, I think your hunting hobby sucks because animal protein is just not good for you. Killing animals by hunting just keeps the tradition of relying on flesh for food alive and it's just so unecessary. People are still going to do it, though. I understand that. It's certainly a heck of a lot better than factory farms. Those are disgusting and barbaric and just so incredibly cruel and degrading whereas hunting is just barbaric.
Well then by starving, wouldn't nature take care of their overpopulation without your ';help?'; Ya know, God set up plans to work perfect without our interfering, and when we do interfere, it tends to mess up how nature work perfectly!!
Wow, this never ceases to amaze me.
Rating system:
don't kill innocent animals, kill cockroaches instead cos they're gross = THUMBS UP
don't mind, it's your choice, it's legal = THUMBS DOWN
feed them = THUMBS UP!!!
KILLER = WOOHOO that's a THUMBS UP!
don't be silly, don't feed them you'll upset the natural balance = THUMBS DOWN!!!
Who's voting?
Is this the general consensus of YA V%26amp;V posters, posts like KILLER %26amp; Cockroaches get thumbs up?
Thank you for your question, FullMetal, let me say 1st-ly I'm not vegan nor a true blue vegetarian, however, I do NOT eat meat %26amp; fish due to bad experiences.
I have no problem with you hunting as long as you aren't poaching and is legal where you are from.
Legislations exist that are in place to keep over-hunting in check.
I didn't even bother reading your whole 'question.' why? because I've seen your idiotic answers in this section before so pretty much anything you say on here makes no sense.
I simply think that hunting is pathetic, heartless and immature. I think people who hunt have nothing else better to do and have no other way of showing how ';manly'; they are so they go after the innocent animals.
could you make me some jerky
good for you! at least kill em and sell their hides for a profit. oh no wait, that make you a poacher....
First of all, North Carolina white tailed deer population are not starving and emaciated. Hunting permits are strictly controlled by N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission so the species isn't over hunted. You aren't very ';up to date'; on what's going on in your own state.....that's obvious..
Nevertheless, if you're talking about Chronic Wasting Disease, it's a transmissible neurological disease of deer and elk..... It's been around for a long time and isn't caused by overpopulation. You should probably educate yourself more.
So, with that being said..... I have no issues if you choose to hunt with a rifle or bow IF you intend to eat the animal and don't hunt purely for sport.....and IF you aren't one of those arrogant dumbazzes who doesn't take the time in the off season to ';hone'; his/her skill so the animal can be ';dropped'; immediately with a single shot, so to be able to kill as humanely as possible.
Somehow however, I get the sense that you may be the kind who shoots 4 and 5 times at a deer because you really don't know how to hunt.
A hunter doesn't hunt purely for the sport, he/she respects the life it's taking and does so in the easiest manner possible.
***Dude, you need to go find out about your deer population there b/c you're very wrong about them being in such dire straights... It's pretty easy to find this information... Go find it...
LOL!!
Good Grief........What do you vegans think of my hunting hobby?
Edit: Yes, its pretty shocking how animals are treated on many farms, even for something like milk (which cows can naturally produce once they are pregnant). If you hunt animals (assuming legally, of course), at least you are willing to directly face the reality behind where your food comes from, as opposed to detaching yourself from the process but eating the results. A bullet shot would be pretty painful but probably much more short-lived and less painful than many of the other methods used to kill animals.
Maybe you might want to consider why you are hunting in the first place. Do you know that the deer you kill are starving? Clearly this is a debatable issue for you, seeing that you are interested in others' opinions on it. If you are hunting because you would starve without the food obtained doing so, and if you can actually respect the animal you kill and use it appropriately (as the Native Americans did), that is a step higher than the cruel farming practices and I think thats a good thing already. In that case, I have nothing major against your hunting.
On the other hand, if you go hunting without any need, but rather ';just for fun'; or because you want to make a profit off their body parts, or simply enjoy killing animals (i.e. sadistic), I do hope you take up a less, um, callous hobby (to put it mildly). Think about it this way, would you like to live with the knowledge of having earned money via killing some innocent animal and selling its parts (e.g. horns)? Would you like an animal to have died/suffered in vain just to satisfy some desire to hunt? If these answers are no, well, I accept your hunting if you respect and properly use what you hunt, rather than waste it and leave dead bodies to rot. I may very well get some flack for this, but I think I understand where you are coming from.
If you have to shoot a deer, use a camera.
I would never kill an innocent animal, but if they were starving than a quick absolutely painless death would be okay. If you were hunting because you were starving and your family is poor and you can't afford a lot of food that would be okay. What wouldn't be okay would be if it were for fun. God i hate people who hunt for fun. The only people who should eat meat are the Native American's because they know how to respect it.
K I L L E R
Overpopulation happens. It happens sooner or later to all species and then some of them die out and the population goes back down to a more normal level. It's all part of a normal cycle. Just because there's an overpopulation now doesn't mean it'll be like that in 5 years or so.
Why would you kill an innocent animal? I mean, if you were attacked by a vicious bear or something, that's a different matter. But to sneak up on some dear and kill it without giving it a chance is just sick and wrong. We don't live in the 1800's. You don't have to kill animals for food. So now you just do it for fun?!
If you wanna kill something that's over-populated, try cockroaches. I won't miss them.
Well...not that your question got a rise out of me...but, I live in VA, NC neighbor to the North, and, like NC. we have tons of deer, and tons of woods and noone's starving. If you saw an emaciated deer, it was probably sick (like it had a parasite or virus)...that happens in the wild.
Since I haven't heard of there being any droughts in NC, I think you're just trying to justify killing deer in your own mind...BECAUSE, hunting is LEGAL IN NC, so hunt all you want...I dont have to like it, but America's purportedly a FREE COUNTRY, so....what's with the dumb question???
yea there is an overpopulation problem, i guess if you like to eat deer, its fine
I have nothing against hunting and I don't care if I get flamed for stating this. For every deer that someone eats, that's one less cow for the factory farms. And deer do cause many problems when they overpopulate, for themselves and for us. Thank you for obtaining your meat from a more ethical (and natural) source.
And you're right about feeding the deer too. It disturbs the ecosystem. Humans are also a part of the ecosystem in North America, like it or not. Native Americans helped keep the populations of deer and other game animals in check before the European settlers came, which really wasn't that long ago in the great scheme of things.
PS: I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a hunting section on answers. I think it might be under sports.
i am not against you personally, but i don't think that killing animals should be classified as a ';sport';.
well, i'm not going to applaud you for it, but i won't bust your balls about it either cause in the end we have two opinions that just aren't going to mesh well.
Try stamp collecting. If you're really concerned about overpopulation, shouldn't you be hunting people?
you can do whatever you want
but don't kill innocent animals.
you can feed them, then they won't starve
I love these v%26amp;v's that think if you go in the woods and try to feed ';bambie'; or ';winnie the pooh'; they will calmly come and eat out of thier hands, hellll maybe they would even have a conversation with them. such precious little harmless animals
Does anyone come to the hunting section of YA just to complain and annoy people? A lot of people do it here at Vegetarian/Vegan.
Just for laughs, I scanned 7 pages of the hunting section and the closest thing to a harassing question was one asking about using decoys, duck calls, etc; saying it was not sportsmanlike. I didn't see any questions like ';why do you kill Bambi'; or ';did you know a gun is really a detachable penis.';
I scanned 7 pages of VV section and found 13 questions that were clearly posted for the sake of harassment and to ask silly questions like ';what do vegetarians feed their pets';, ';if an animal was genetically engineered to feel no pain would you eat it'; ';how do I deconvert a vegetarian and turn him into a normal person'; ';what would a vegan do if he had to live in the wild'; etc. One person even gave himself the name of ';Anti Vegan.';
Personally, I don't bother with sections that don't interest me. Why can't you do the same? Some people don't agree with you--be a man and accept it.
I dont really care about it much at all. i could lie and say im to busy or this or that but in reality i just dont care.
kill animals, eat meat, take the karma and take the heart disease, it matters little to me.
so? big deal.
why should i think about what you do? i have more than enough things to think about during the day. if you need permission from vegans... well...
you don't have enough to do during the day.
It doesn't bother me when people hunt as long as they use the meat, and even the skin, etc, for their own purposes, especially if the species is overpopulated. I am not crazy about hunting for sport alone or just for the trophy.
I'm not a vegan, but predation is natural. As long as you kill what you eat, I don't know how anyone could come up with an intelligent opposition.
You do have a point that civilization has upset the balance of Nature and so things get out of whack and the populations of some animals boom and they do indeed end up starving if they overcrowd an area.
We had a problem in our local mountains with bark beetles. Environmentalists didn't want the trees to be cut down to try and control this pest and so it took over huge areas and now we have extreme fire hazards. People need to understand that we impact nature dramatically just by being here so we have to compensate. it's pretty much our duty, the way I see it.
Still, though, I think your hunting hobby sucks because animal protein is just not good for you. Killing animals by hunting just keeps the tradition of relying on flesh for food alive and it's just so unecessary. People are still going to do it, though. I understand that. It's certainly a heck of a lot better than factory farms. Those are disgusting and barbaric and just so incredibly cruel and degrading whereas hunting is just barbaric.
Well then by starving, wouldn't nature take care of their overpopulation without your ';help?'; Ya know, God set up plans to work perfect without our interfering, and when we do interfere, it tends to mess up how nature work perfectly!!
Wow, this never ceases to amaze me.
Rating system:
don't kill innocent animals, kill cockroaches instead cos they're gross = THUMBS UP
don't mind, it's your choice, it's legal = THUMBS DOWN
feed them = THUMBS UP!!!
KILLER = WOOHOO that's a THUMBS UP!
don't be silly, don't feed them you'll upset the natural balance = THUMBS DOWN!!!
Who's voting?
Is this the general consensus of YA V%26amp;V posters, posts like KILLER %26amp; Cockroaches get thumbs up?
Thank you for your question, FullMetal, let me say 1st-ly I'm not vegan nor a true blue vegetarian, however, I do NOT eat meat %26amp; fish due to bad experiences.
I have no problem with you hunting as long as you aren't poaching and is legal where you are from.
Legislations exist that are in place to keep over-hunting in check.
I didn't even bother reading your whole 'question.' why? because I've seen your idiotic answers in this section before so pretty much anything you say on here makes no sense.
I simply think that hunting is pathetic, heartless and immature. I think people who hunt have nothing else better to do and have no other way of showing how ';manly'; they are so they go after the innocent animals.
could you make me some jerky
good for you! at least kill em and sell their hides for a profit. oh no wait, that make you a poacher....
When hunting, does a bullet typically pass all the way through the animal, or does it often get stuck inside?
I'm curious, I've not been hunting.
In a typical deer hunt, does the typical rifle or shotgun slug people use pass all the way through the animals body? Or does it typically get stuck somewhere inside?
What about larger animals like bears?When hunting, does a bullet typically pass all the way through the animal, or does it often get stuck inside?
Lot's of different variables are involved with this question. Usually, provided that you are taking a broadside heart/lung shot and using an acceptable hunting caliber, the round will pass through. Sometimes, rarely and depending on the type of ammo, the round will fragment and expand drastically and fall just short of exiting. If you take a stem to stern hot (not recommended) then some rounds (like .223 and 7.62x39) will most likely get stuck inside whereas others (like .243, .270, .30-06) may still penetrate all the way through.
With shotguns I am not so sure. Massad Ayoob (very well respected gun writer) says that even 00 buck will seldom penetrate far enough to kill deer. Slugs will definitely penetrate, with the kind of mass and energy they pack I would assume they would also pass through.
Bear are a whole different ball game. Black bear should only take a little more oomph than deer but I still wouldn't use anything less than .270/.308/.30-06/7.62x54r. With Grizzlies I would be surprised if any hunting round would penetrate all the way through on a stem to stern shot. 30-06 and up should still overpenetrate on a broadside shot. I would expect only the biggest (.300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, .375 H%26amp;H) to do so stem to stern, frontal shot.When hunting, does a bullet typically pass all the way through the animal, or does it often get stuck inside?
You've stepped right into the middle of an old argument. Some people think the perfect bullet performance will leave the mushroomed bullet under the hide on the off side, having penetrated almost all the way and dumped all its energy in the animal. Others think it's better to have an exit wound, so there are two holes for blood to exit on shots that don't drop the animal immediately. At any rate, since you have to choose a bullet that will penetrate adequately, even the proponents of the first argument wind up with a bullet that'll exit as often as not. And even after careful bullet selection and careful shot placement, there's still the matter of luck: the bullet may hit a lot of heavy bone, or it may slip in between the ribs without hitting bone at all.
Something similar holds true even with massive Cape buffalo: if hit in the ribcage with a solid of sectional density 0.3 or greater, the bullet may exit the off side, perhaps even unintentionally wounding another member of the herd; if hit in the shoulder, or the boss (the heavy spot between the horns) with an expanding bullet of sectional density .275 (also very popular for the purpose), it may not penetrate adequately to anchor the animal.
I only hunt deer with shotgun, because rifles are illegal in IL. I have hunted all my life, and every slug I have put in a deer has always passed straight through. I went first season a couple weeks ago and dropped 3 deer, with 3 different guns (20 ga. mossburg pump, 12. ga remington 11 87, and a 12 ga. h%26amp;r single shot). @ of the guns have rifled barrels, the 11 87 has a smooth barrel. Of the three deer i shot all the slugs passed through completely, none of with were close shots either, all in the 80-100yard range. In my personal experience, i have never found a slug lodged in a deer. (by the way, for anyone that wants to call me out on the rules and regulations of IL, i only had permits for 2 of the 3 deer, the third was shot for another permit holder next to me who wasn't having much luck shooting anything that day, he put his permit on the third. I am not a poacher.)
Either can happen. It is best if you select a bullet that will not disintegrate and that will not pass through the animal. That way, all of the energy is dissipated in the animal and it does the most damage. For me, typically the bullets go all the way through. I usually shoot through the chest cavity, hitting the heart or lungs or both. If you shoot them in the shoulder, there is enough resistance there to stop most bullets. I once shot a buck that was facing me and hit it in the chest. The bullet was just under the skin by the left rear hip.
When hunting with smaller calibers I experienced bullets not passing through. I didn't retrive any of those deer. The reason most hunters want a pass through is, yes blood trail, to find the deer if shot placement was not good. I never want a deer to get shot and run 100 yds away and I never find him only for him or her to die 2 days later after suffering from a poor shot or poor bullet performance. I reload for my weapon and since I started this I have not lost a deer. Most are 1 shot kills.
well all the ones i seen they go through and i think thats how its suposed to be inless you got a hollow point and if you get anything you could see that it would be more damege on the exit wound lets say you were huntint whitetail or wild boar with a 30 06 then get a fedral softnose amunition to use and thats the best ones and you shoot one then turn it over you could see there is a puncture wound in the side you shot it then on the other side you could most likley to see a lung or heart out of its body so yeah! but you got it! and it it ok to scream! yeah! after you shoot it cause i will tell you one thing that there wont be any more deer coming for a whyle
Slugs will generally not go through. Rifle rounds will, usually, but it depends on distance to your deer and where it hits. Smaller and lighter rounds won't, larger ones will, but if it hits a bone or has to pass through a lot of material, it stays in the carcass.
Well that depends. Depending on the ammo its either supoosed to mushroom or fragment in the body although sometimes the ammo will fail to do so and go through. It's not supposed to but it happens. You don't want that to happen.
if you hit them right ,it should..right behind the shoulder,about one third the way up. makes for a nice blood trail. or you can hit them right at the top of the shoulder and drop them in their tracks,that makes for a short bloodtrail
It usually passes through the animal. I only found one bullet in all the deer i have shot and the deer that I found the bullet in was about 150 yards away with a 30/30.
Listen to Jeff! He's probably the only person that answered so far that's ever shot a deer.
It depends on the area hit and the caliber used. Quite often I find the bullet it the deer but not always.
12 gauge slug broke the front leg, smashed through the heart, and snapped ribs on the way out. .50 cal muzzle loader punched right through too
Either.
Depends on shot placement, animal, and caliber.
it gets stuck in the animals body.
i believe a sniper rifle can get through all the way
like the recoil 577 t-rex rifle it can go all the way thorough the animals body.
Stuck inside.
Thats why there's only one hole.
It gets stuck I believe.
In a typical deer hunt, does the typical rifle or shotgun slug people use pass all the way through the animals body? Or does it typically get stuck somewhere inside?
What about larger animals like bears?When hunting, does a bullet typically pass all the way through the animal, or does it often get stuck inside?
Lot's of different variables are involved with this question. Usually, provided that you are taking a broadside heart/lung shot and using an acceptable hunting caliber, the round will pass through. Sometimes, rarely and depending on the type of ammo, the round will fragment and expand drastically and fall just short of exiting. If you take a stem to stern hot (not recommended) then some rounds (like .223 and 7.62x39) will most likely get stuck inside whereas others (like .243, .270, .30-06) may still penetrate all the way through.
With shotguns I am not so sure. Massad Ayoob (very well respected gun writer) says that even 00 buck will seldom penetrate far enough to kill deer. Slugs will definitely penetrate, with the kind of mass and energy they pack I would assume they would also pass through.
Bear are a whole different ball game. Black bear should only take a little more oomph than deer but I still wouldn't use anything less than .270/.308/.30-06/7.62x54r. With Grizzlies I would be surprised if any hunting round would penetrate all the way through on a stem to stern shot. 30-06 and up should still overpenetrate on a broadside shot. I would expect only the biggest (.300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, .375 H%26amp;H) to do so stem to stern, frontal shot.When hunting, does a bullet typically pass all the way through the animal, or does it often get stuck inside?
You've stepped right into the middle of an old argument. Some people think the perfect bullet performance will leave the mushroomed bullet under the hide on the off side, having penetrated almost all the way and dumped all its energy in the animal. Others think it's better to have an exit wound, so there are two holes for blood to exit on shots that don't drop the animal immediately. At any rate, since you have to choose a bullet that will penetrate adequately, even the proponents of the first argument wind up with a bullet that'll exit as often as not. And even after careful bullet selection and careful shot placement, there's still the matter of luck: the bullet may hit a lot of heavy bone, or it may slip in between the ribs without hitting bone at all.
Something similar holds true even with massive Cape buffalo: if hit in the ribcage with a solid of sectional density 0.3 or greater, the bullet may exit the off side, perhaps even unintentionally wounding another member of the herd; if hit in the shoulder, or the boss (the heavy spot between the horns) with an expanding bullet of sectional density .275 (also very popular for the purpose), it may not penetrate adequately to anchor the animal.
I only hunt deer with shotgun, because rifles are illegal in IL. I have hunted all my life, and every slug I have put in a deer has always passed straight through. I went first season a couple weeks ago and dropped 3 deer, with 3 different guns (20 ga. mossburg pump, 12. ga remington 11 87, and a 12 ga. h%26amp;r single shot). @ of the guns have rifled barrels, the 11 87 has a smooth barrel. Of the three deer i shot all the slugs passed through completely, none of with were close shots either, all in the 80-100yard range. In my personal experience, i have never found a slug lodged in a deer. (by the way, for anyone that wants to call me out on the rules and regulations of IL, i only had permits for 2 of the 3 deer, the third was shot for another permit holder next to me who wasn't having much luck shooting anything that day, he put his permit on the third. I am not a poacher.)
Either can happen. It is best if you select a bullet that will not disintegrate and that will not pass through the animal. That way, all of the energy is dissipated in the animal and it does the most damage. For me, typically the bullets go all the way through. I usually shoot through the chest cavity, hitting the heart or lungs or both. If you shoot them in the shoulder, there is enough resistance there to stop most bullets. I once shot a buck that was facing me and hit it in the chest. The bullet was just under the skin by the left rear hip.
When hunting with smaller calibers I experienced bullets not passing through. I didn't retrive any of those deer. The reason most hunters want a pass through is, yes blood trail, to find the deer if shot placement was not good. I never want a deer to get shot and run 100 yds away and I never find him only for him or her to die 2 days later after suffering from a poor shot or poor bullet performance. I reload for my weapon and since I started this I have not lost a deer. Most are 1 shot kills.
well all the ones i seen they go through and i think thats how its suposed to be inless you got a hollow point and if you get anything you could see that it would be more damege on the exit wound lets say you were huntint whitetail or wild boar with a 30 06 then get a fedral softnose amunition to use and thats the best ones and you shoot one then turn it over you could see there is a puncture wound in the side you shot it then on the other side you could most likley to see a lung or heart out of its body so yeah! but you got it! and it it ok to scream! yeah! after you shoot it cause i will tell you one thing that there wont be any more deer coming for a whyle
Slugs will generally not go through. Rifle rounds will, usually, but it depends on distance to your deer and where it hits. Smaller and lighter rounds won't, larger ones will, but if it hits a bone or has to pass through a lot of material, it stays in the carcass.
Well that depends. Depending on the ammo its either supoosed to mushroom or fragment in the body although sometimes the ammo will fail to do so and go through. It's not supposed to but it happens. You don't want that to happen.
if you hit them right ,it should..right behind the shoulder,about one third the way up. makes for a nice blood trail. or you can hit them right at the top of the shoulder and drop them in their tracks,that makes for a short bloodtrail
It usually passes through the animal. I only found one bullet in all the deer i have shot and the deer that I found the bullet in was about 150 yards away with a 30/30.
Listen to Jeff! He's probably the only person that answered so far that's ever shot a deer.
It depends on the area hit and the caliber used. Quite often I find the bullet it the deer but not always.
12 gauge slug broke the front leg, smashed through the heart, and snapped ribs on the way out. .50 cal muzzle loader punched right through too
Either.
Depends on shot placement, animal, and caliber.
it gets stuck in the animals body.
i believe a sniper rifle can get through all the way
like the recoil 577 t-rex rifle it can go all the way thorough the animals body.
Stuck inside.
Thats why there's only one hole.
It gets stuck I believe.
What are the most popular and reliable hand guns for home defense and/or hunting?
If you had to defend yourself from multiple gun-wielding home invaders what hand gun would you want. Reliablility and a high capacity ammo clip are important. Please only answer if you have knowledge of handguns.What are the most popular and reliable hand guns for home defense and/or hunting?
Handguns are not generally used for hunting. A shotgun is good, lots of inexpensive versions are available. Berreta is a good name. If you really need a handgun, I would go with a berreta in that type as well. Please seek training for handgun use. Home defense is tricky to say the least. Alot to consider. Good luck.What are the most popular and reliable hand guns for home defense and/or hunting?
Ithica 12-gauge pump shotgun
Any of the XD line
Glock 23 - .40 S%26amp;W Best handgun on the market in my opinion. Affordable, RELIABLE and hard hitting. Clip holds 13+1.
Handguns are not generally used for hunting. A shotgun is good, lots of inexpensive versions are available. Berreta is a good name. If you really need a handgun, I would go with a berreta in that type as well. Please seek training for handgun use. Home defense is tricky to say the least. Alot to consider. Good luck.What are the most popular and reliable hand guns for home defense and/or hunting?
Ithica 12-gauge pump shotgun
Any of the XD line
Glock 23 - .40 S%26amp;W Best handgun on the market in my opinion. Affordable, RELIABLE and hard hitting. Clip holds 13+1.
What would be the best approach to hunting adirondack black bears?
Going to Northern New York w/ party of 6. Have 4 guys with rifles, two w/ shotguns. 8th lake area, early season hunt. We have a week so even time consuming techniques are welcome. Thanx. NO PETA PEOPLE ANSWERS PLEASE AS THE WORD KILL ONLY APPEARS ONCE.What would be the best approach to hunting adirondack black bears?
this time of year bears are mostly feeding on grass and berries. Look for them on roads that are not very traveled where grass was planted to prevent erosion, in berry patches, or on south facing slopes. The look alot like stumps and you will need a good set of optics. Game calls will work this time of year also as no bear will pass on an easy meal. A fawn distress call is my favorite. The hard part about calling bears is not shooting other game animals that beat the bear to your set. In other words if you really want a bear don't shoot the cougar that shows up first. The lion will spot you and leave. Keep calling and be patient all kinds of neat stuff comes crawling out of the woods for a fawn distress call. Primos is my favorite brand of calls. Follow the instructions on the box. Please be very carefull as bear hunting is very exiting and dangerous also. If you shoot a bear and it runs into the brush do not go running off through the brush after it. Wait at least a 1/2 hour and proceed real slow. The last thing you want to do is step on a pissed off wounded bear. Sounds stupid but with the sun going down in thick brush it is a possibility. So have fun be safe and good hunting.What would be the best approach to hunting adirondack black bears?
OMG you are a horrible person willing to take a cubs mother or father j/k idk really know much about hunting bears but i recommend that u also carry and bottle of pepper spray especially if you hunting from a tree and if cubs make an attempt to climb the tree you hunting from dont be afraid to kick them back down it but i would use a tree stand on a well traveled path possibly near a water source
Peace
the Bluegill Master
I suggest baiting them, that is my preferred method for hunting black bears.
YUCK DISGUSTING EVIL PERSON WHY DO IT
Baiting is for lazy people who dont know how to hunt.
Talk with local hunters and find out the current food source. Once you know the food, all you have to do is find it and one will be along.
this time of year bears are mostly feeding on grass and berries. Look for them on roads that are not very traveled where grass was planted to prevent erosion, in berry patches, or on south facing slopes. The look alot like stumps and you will need a good set of optics. Game calls will work this time of year also as no bear will pass on an easy meal. A fawn distress call is my favorite. The hard part about calling bears is not shooting other game animals that beat the bear to your set. In other words if you really want a bear don't shoot the cougar that shows up first. The lion will spot you and leave. Keep calling and be patient all kinds of neat stuff comes crawling out of the woods for a fawn distress call. Primos is my favorite brand of calls. Follow the instructions on the box. Please be very carefull as bear hunting is very exiting and dangerous also. If you shoot a bear and it runs into the brush do not go running off through the brush after it. Wait at least a 1/2 hour and proceed real slow. The last thing you want to do is step on a pissed off wounded bear. Sounds stupid but with the sun going down in thick brush it is a possibility. So have fun be safe and good hunting.What would be the best approach to hunting adirondack black bears?
OMG you are a horrible person willing to take a cubs mother or father j/k idk really know much about hunting bears but i recommend that u also carry and bottle of pepper spray especially if you hunting from a tree and if cubs make an attempt to climb the tree you hunting from dont be afraid to kick them back down it but i would use a tree stand on a well traveled path possibly near a water source
Peace
the Bluegill Master
I suggest baiting them, that is my preferred method for hunting black bears.
YUCK DISGUSTING EVIL PERSON WHY DO IT
Baiting is for lazy people who dont know how to hunt.
Talk with local hunters and find out the current food source. Once you know the food, all you have to do is find it and one will be along.
What are the neccesary accesories for deer hunting?
I realized today that my pack is empty besides a knife/saw/gutting hook. I really don't wanna go hunting and not have the proper supplies.What are the neccesary accesories for deer hunting?
add a compass, flashlight, fire starter (wp matches in a pinch)
I carry a couple of pr of latex gloves, some ziplock bags and 50 of 3/8 rope
The farther out I hunt the more stuff I carry... but I sort of base the list on..What does it take to dress and perserve the carcass?... and What would i need to spend the night in the woods/What are the neccesary accesories for deer hunting?
It depends on how close to the house you are. I NEVER leave the house without
1. Telling someone where I will be hunting and when I plan on being back
2. Weapon of chose
3. Extra Ammo
4. Phone that is charged
5. Knife
6. Water
7. Snack
Everything else in my pack is optional. Like scents, extra jacket, seat, blind, or stand. I normally hunt within walking distance of house I would increase pack size if farther from home.
You might want to toss in a game bag, and some rope and a small block and tackle for hanging your deer up to skin it .
I've been in situations where it was more sensible to skin it and bone it out right on the spot especially if you are a few miles in and just pack out the meat on the first trip out and then go back and retrieve the hide and head later!................it's an Idea...they don't all die right by the road!
And how do you expect to get that deer out of the woods?
You need rope if your going to drag it out (tie it around the head to where when you pull the rope, it lifts the head) or do you plan on butchering it in the field? If so, you'll need 2x as many plastic bags. You'll want to double bag it.
Add a compass, matches, warmer layer of clothes (you want to dress in layers), a flashlight and basic survival gear just in case.
flash light
binoculars
range finder
scent killer
scent attractant
boots that are warm and keep out water
cell phone
knives (long and short)
gloves
camo
blind or stand
gun
some way to get the deer back to the car
tarp for the deer
ice
food drink
magazine to occupy time
orange vest
ammo
sight in your gun.
hunting rules book
Maybe some granola bars, water would be good. I know when I'm out I get thirsty and hungry so I take a FEW items.
If you hunt from a tree stand 30' of nylon string and a treble hook..Why these you may ask...because it's a pain in the rear to have to get back down out of your stand to pick up that nice warm hat or glove you dropped.
Maybe a small pump bottle of cover scent.
Extra cartridges (not a whole box mind you).
A whistle isn't a bad idea if your going into really rough country..if you get hurt you may not be able to talk or cry out for help ..but if your breathing you can still blow the whistle.
A topography map a good idea also. I put mine in a Ziploc bag.
It's the same one I used to mark game trails on and where I found crossings, beds, food ect.
Like many have said it depends on how far you are going in and what the climate is like and how many people are in your party. Basic survival kit with water,food,matches,light,rope,tarp,game bag plus a back up gun and extra knives. A gps and mirror and cell phone.
First off, you shouldn't go out alone, second, if your inexperienced you should at least try to find someone in your area that you know who has done this before.
a deer and a gun to shoot that deer.
a gun
Well then don't go hunting free, wild animals at alldiscount makeup
add a compass, flashlight, fire starter (wp matches in a pinch)
I carry a couple of pr of latex gloves, some ziplock bags and 50 of 3/8 rope
The farther out I hunt the more stuff I carry... but I sort of base the list on..What does it take to dress and perserve the carcass?... and What would i need to spend the night in the woods/What are the neccesary accesories for deer hunting?
It depends on how close to the house you are. I NEVER leave the house without
1. Telling someone where I will be hunting and when I plan on being back
2. Weapon of chose
3. Extra Ammo
4. Phone that is charged
5. Knife
6. Water
7. Snack
Everything else in my pack is optional. Like scents, extra jacket, seat, blind, or stand. I normally hunt within walking distance of house I would increase pack size if farther from home.
You might want to toss in a game bag, and some rope and a small block and tackle for hanging your deer up to skin it .
I've been in situations where it was more sensible to skin it and bone it out right on the spot especially if you are a few miles in and just pack out the meat on the first trip out and then go back and retrieve the hide and head later!................it's an Idea...they don't all die right by the road!
And how do you expect to get that deer out of the woods?
You need rope if your going to drag it out (tie it around the head to where when you pull the rope, it lifts the head) or do you plan on butchering it in the field? If so, you'll need 2x as many plastic bags. You'll want to double bag it.
Add a compass, matches, warmer layer of clothes (you want to dress in layers), a flashlight and basic survival gear just in case.
flash light
binoculars
range finder
scent killer
scent attractant
boots that are warm and keep out water
cell phone
knives (long and short)
gloves
camo
blind or stand
gun
some way to get the deer back to the car
tarp for the deer
ice
food drink
magazine to occupy time
orange vest
ammo
sight in your gun.
hunting rules book
Maybe some granola bars, water would be good. I know when I'm out I get thirsty and hungry so I take a FEW items.
If you hunt from a tree stand 30' of nylon string and a treble hook..Why these you may ask...because it's a pain in the rear to have to get back down out of your stand to pick up that nice warm hat or glove you dropped.
Maybe a small pump bottle of cover scent.
Extra cartridges (not a whole box mind you).
A whistle isn't a bad idea if your going into really rough country..if you get hurt you may not be able to talk or cry out for help ..but if your breathing you can still blow the whistle.
A topography map a good idea also. I put mine in a Ziploc bag.
It's the same one I used to mark game trails on and where I found crossings, beds, food ect.
Like many have said it depends on how far you are going in and what the climate is like and how many people are in your party. Basic survival kit with water,food,matches,light,rope,tarp,game bag plus a back up gun and extra knives. A gps and mirror and cell phone.
First off, you shouldn't go out alone, second, if your inexperienced you should at least try to find someone in your area that you know who has done this before.
a deer and a gun to shoot that deer.
a gun
Well then don't go hunting free, wild animals at all
What is happening in the jap whale hunting expiditon?
There has ben no news about it for several days.What is happening in the jap whale hunting expiditon?
hi, they are out in the ocean, the japanese ship is trying to hide from the esperanza, we have the sea shepard that is going to leave melbourne next week to join in with greenpeace....ill post a live webcam link to the ship Esperanza...the images upload every 30 seconds and its live, but take note that when its dark the web cam can not pick up images....just to dark...but you can follow their journey across the oceans..and keep up to date with the crew members......What is happening in the jap whale hunting expiditon?
The Japanese whaling fleet is currently en route to Antarctica, they left on Monday. Greenpeace is going to try to intercept the fleet and attempt to interfere with their operations in an effort to reduce their catch.
this is just some disgusting idea from the huntting team.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/japa鈥?/a>
hey, greenpeace's girl. don't you have greenpeace member here in japan? i don't see them in the news at all!!!
or may be the media here is not showing it.
i know you guys are trying to intercept the ships, but i can not see how can it help in the long run. you guys know where they live. why not try to do your best at their homeland. telling their people how bullshit the hutting program is and how stupid this whaling make them look like in the international level.
i saw you sandwich that ugly ship last year, good job by the way, but i don't see how it will help make japanese understand what are you doing. some of them even call you as terrorists.
if you don't focus on make the japanese public understand how important to keep the whale and stop the bullshit sci program. you will never stop them from doing what they are doing.
hi, they are out in the ocean, the japanese ship is trying to hide from the esperanza, we have the sea shepard that is going to leave melbourne next week to join in with greenpeace....ill post a live webcam link to the ship Esperanza...the images upload every 30 seconds and its live, but take note that when its dark the web cam can not pick up images....just to dark...but you can follow their journey across the oceans..and keep up to date with the crew members......What is happening in the jap whale hunting expiditon?
The Japanese whaling fleet is currently en route to Antarctica, they left on Monday. Greenpeace is going to try to intercept the fleet and attempt to interfere with their operations in an effort to reduce their catch.
this is just some disgusting idea from the huntting team.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/japa鈥?/a>
hey, greenpeace's girl. don't you have greenpeace member here in japan? i don't see them in the news at all!!!
or may be the media here is not showing it.
i know you guys are trying to intercept the ships, but i can not see how can it help in the long run. you guys know where they live. why not try to do your best at their homeland. telling their people how bullshit the hutting program is and how stupid this whaling make them look like in the international level.
i saw you sandwich that ugly ship last year, good job by the way, but i don't see how it will help make japanese understand what are you doing. some of them even call you as terrorists.
if you don't focus on make the japanese public understand how important to keep the whale and stop the bullshit sci program. you will never stop them from doing what they are doing.
What are your strategies for fall turkey hunting?
From articles I've read, spring calls don't work very well. I do know a spot where they move through, just not sure of their timing, it's never the same each day, but the location is pretty reliable. Unfortunately, that spot is on adjoining property where I hunt. I see them a lot, but my question is this; Is there a way to lure them across the fence for a good ol' 20 gauge salute?What are your strategies for fall turkey hunting?
My experience in the Fall makes me think that most calls, just don't seem to work on at the beginning of the season for Gobblers.The only way I have been consistantly successful is to find out where they roost for the night, and get there and set up closeby about 40 minutes before the sun comes up. I've also had some luck bringing a few Tom's thru a wire fence in past hunts using a lifelike Tom Decoy, along with 2 Jake Decoys close by....That seems to work in the FallWhat are your strategies for fall turkey hunting?
Find out where they are, then sit and wait
I park my butt near where they roost and hope to get a shot at one when they come down. And I haven't found any calls that work in the fall.
you have to scout and pattern their feeding habits. they are a creature of habit. if you come across a flock, make note of the time. if you are unsuccessful in tagging a bird that day, try and come back another day (as soon as you are able) and get set up in that spot at least 30 minutes ahead of when you first spotted the flock.
while squirrel hunting with my 2 nephews last weekend we kicked up a flock on the 2nd bench of the mountain and then found their line of scratchings on the 1st bench as we came down. as soon as archery ends i'll be taking my 12 gauge Mossberg chambered with #4 3'; Mags or a walk.
My experience in the Fall makes me think that most calls, just don't seem to work on at the beginning of the season for Gobblers.The only way I have been consistantly successful is to find out where they roost for the night, and get there and set up closeby about 40 minutes before the sun comes up. I've also had some luck bringing a few Tom's thru a wire fence in past hunts using a lifelike Tom Decoy, along with 2 Jake Decoys close by....That seems to work in the FallWhat are your strategies for fall turkey hunting?
Find out where they are, then sit and wait
I park my butt near where they roost and hope to get a shot at one when they come down. And I haven't found any calls that work in the fall.
you have to scout and pattern their feeding habits. they are a creature of habit. if you come across a flock, make note of the time. if you are unsuccessful in tagging a bird that day, try and come back another day (as soon as you are able) and get set up in that spot at least 30 minutes ahead of when you first spotted the flock.
while squirrel hunting with my 2 nephews last weekend we kicked up a flock on the 2nd bench of the mountain and then found their line of scratchings on the 1st bench as we came down. as soon as archery ends i'll be taking my 12 gauge Mossberg chambered with #4 3'; Mags or a walk.
Is hunting the cheapest way of controlling the deer population?
In what ways are hunting controlled and regulated? Some argue that hunters are just a substitute for the absence of natural predators. Do you agree with this statement?Is hunting the cheapest way of controlling the deer population?
Hunting is unbelievably controlled and regulated in each state by fish and game which is a state government entity. They refer to it as a harvest and the deer would be over populated. The lack of natural predators theory depends on where you are in the US you would have to compare deer population vs predator that eat deer population and how many deer that particular predator eats/year. I really think it is a necessary harvest. The hunters are required to abide by very strict laws and fines when hunting if they are even drawn for the hunt in the VERY limited lottery (and not all lottery winners actually get to shoot a deer). Hunting does not hurt the animal population and it is a sport or used to be.
It is profitable but remember everyone that pays to get in the drawing for a license, doesn't always get a deer. The lucky ones then have to spend hundreds more dollars to clean, skin and prepare the meat.
Many states also encourage the hunting of these predatory animals due to over population. in many states it is free to kill these animals and no license needed due to predator over population. Research that one. Predatory animal hunting.Is hunting the cheapest way of controlling the deer population?
Probably the best way to deal with a growing deer population is to prevent the loss of its natural predators. That is, stop the hunting and trapping of wolves and other large carnivores.
Yes. Easily. Actually, hunting is profitable. People have to pay for hunting licenses.
Hunting is unbelievably controlled and regulated in each state by fish and game which is a state government entity. They refer to it as a harvest and the deer would be over populated. The lack of natural predators theory depends on where you are in the US you would have to compare deer population vs predator that eat deer population and how many deer that particular predator eats/year. I really think it is a necessary harvest. The hunters are required to abide by very strict laws and fines when hunting if they are even drawn for the hunt in the VERY limited lottery (and not all lottery winners actually get to shoot a deer). Hunting does not hurt the animal population and it is a sport or used to be.
It is profitable but remember everyone that pays to get in the drawing for a license, doesn't always get a deer. The lucky ones then have to spend hundreds more dollars to clean, skin and prepare the meat.
Many states also encourage the hunting of these predatory animals due to over population. in many states it is free to kill these animals and no license needed due to predator over population. Research that one. Predatory animal hunting.Is hunting the cheapest way of controlling the deer population?
Probably the best way to deal with a growing deer population is to prevent the loss of its natural predators. That is, stop the hunting and trapping of wolves and other large carnivores.
Yes. Easily. Actually, hunting is profitable. People have to pay for hunting licenses.
What is the best surplus rifle for hunting?
Since there are so many bargains in the surplus market, I'd like to buy one for hunting and hopefully save $ while still having an effective hunting gun.
Which is the best - 8mm mauser / Mossin Nagant / Enfield / other?What is the best surplus rifle for hunting?
It sounds like you are trying to save costs, so here are three inexpensive surplus rifles that still see a LOT of service.
The Mauser, Mosin-Nagant and the Enfield are all good quality rifles.
Each has their own distinct ammunition, and you can find quality, non-corrosive rounds at most any good sporting goods store. Any of those rounds will take most North American game - remember, placement is more important than quantity!
The least expensive will be the Mosin-Nagant, at under $100 for a nice rifle. Practice with fifteen cent corrosive surplus rounds that do NOT have a lacquer coating or you will suffer from the dreaded ';sticky bolt syndrome';, with all brands you would then fine tune your sights with the newly made, non corrosive hunting cartridges for about 75 cents a round.
Next up is the Enfield. You can get a .303 or a .308 for under $200 and they have actions that are usually quite smooth.
Last, the 8mm Mauser. Most modern bolt actions were fathered by this type of action, and they are fine rifles but they may average $250.
Of all these, the older caliber .303, #4Mk1 Enfield seems to have the best sight for me, a peep sight in the rear like all modern rifles.
You can get scope mounts for all of these, but at distances of about 150 yards or less, you truly do not need a scope.What is the best surplus rifle for hunting?
I have used several surplus rifles for hunting, it's hard to go wrong with most any of them. My personal favorite iis the Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 caliber. Recoil is light, the quality of the macxhined surfaces is excellent. If you choose to sporterize, there are many stocks and styles available. It was also the most accurate of my surplus guns, holding a 2'; group at 100 yards with military open sights. I have since fabricated my own scope mount that requires no permanent alteration to the gun, and mounted a 2-6 variable pistol scope, ala the ';scout rifle';. It is one of my favorite deer guns.
My pick would be something non-corrosive. That is the biggest problem with many older surplus rifles chambered in 7.62x54R or 8mm Mauser. They all have corrosive ammo. It can be a pain to clean.
Try and seek out something in 7.62x51 (308 Winchester). If you can find an Ishapore Lee-Enfield they rock. Or start scrubbing with hot soapy water after you shoot something corrosive, then clean normally.
edited to add: Of course you can find quality non-corrosive ammo but it makes the reason you want a surplus rifle kind of odd. Cheap ammo. Which is why I pointed towards the 308 Enfield. I have one, as smooth as butter. Ammo is plentiful and I don't have to worry about the ammo becoming scarce. It's a NATO caliber and a good hunting round.
I'm gong to get on my soap box about the illogical fear of ';corrosive'; ammo some people have.
I've been shooting corrosive surplus ammo in military surplus rifles for several decades and never had a rust or corrosion problem. Not one, in dozens of rifles and hundreds of outings. Unless you are a complete and total lazy slob about cleaning your tube out and prepping your guns to be put away in the safe, you will never have any problem either.
This kind of ammo was all your grandfather shot with, and his father, etc. going back to the invention of the cartridge. Did their guns corrode away on them? No, because they cleaned them, like you're supposed to. Every single surplus M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and 03 Springfield ever used in the US military at one time used ';corrosive';: ammo.
OK, off the soapbox.
My #1 hunting rifle is a beautiful 1950s customized Springfield 03 in the original .30-06 that was left to me by a friend of my dads and grandads. He spent a fortune on this one getting it done back then and the workmanship is excellent. While I kept her as a ';Safe-queen'; for many years, I decided to take her out and use her for what she was built for. A lot of honest field wear later, and I have no regrets, it's a fine gun that has taken many a meal and a few trophies as well (Yes, I'm one of those!).
I've also used Mausers for customizing and hunting and have one Mosin carbine that is now my pig gun, in Scout rifle setup. I've owned or had friends that used Argentine 7mm, Czech 8mms, Swede 6.5mm, Swiss 7.5mm, Brit Enfield .303s, etc.
All the .30 caliber range of WWII era rifles can make suitable hunters. The Swede 6.5x55 could very well be the most influential hunting round ever developed.
Problems do exist. Scope mounts can be a challenge, barrels may be worn, requiring replacement or custom loaded ammo for a snug fit. Stocks are avalable for many and you may need to replace or customize the bolt to clear the scope. In the Mosin, you simply cannot trust the safety mechanism, so you need to carry with an empyt chamber.
If you intend to build a custom rifle, the small ring Mausers make fine starting points.
Out of the box, in original configuration, the rifles that I would actually select to go in the field after deer would be, using original iron sights:
Springfield 03 .30-06
Swiss K-31 7.5mm Swiss
Swede M38 carbine 6.5x55
Yugo M48, 8mm
Enfield No. 4 Mk I, .303 Brit
SKS carbine, 7.62x39
Depends on how big of game you are hunting. For medium deer sized game and less a SKS is an excellent firearm. SKSs are affordable ($200) and reasonably accurate at resonable ranges. SKSs are semi-automatic which allows for quick follow up shots should you miss. The ammo for the SKS (7.62x39) is the cheapest rifle ammo excluding rimfire that money can buy.
mosin nagant 91/30
its 69 bucks
the 91/30 is longer and bigger than the m44, but also less recoil
7.62x54r is still plentiful by the case online.
corrosive only means you need to clean your gun with windex often.
c/r eligible
SVD rifle (surplus)
a bit on the expensive side
semi automatic ';sniper';
7.62x54r
same action as AK47
also c/r eligible
if you miss, simply aim and pull the trigger again.
Ok call me old fashon, but I like the old lever action model 94 30-30. They are accurate, easy to use and clean, they last forever with little work. They have been around for over a hundred years. you can get ammo almost anywhere. Its one of the most popular hunting rifles around, and will stand up to the abuse you might put it through. I mean geez they were made to be hung from the side of a horse!! average price of one $300-$500 unless it is and Older one that was made in the early 1900's. This gun is good upto around 150 yards with open sights. you can get what is called a ';scout'; scope for and older top eject model. and then it is good arund 250 yards. Solid Gun!
Enfield .303 N1 Mk4 is a good rifle. I bought one for $90 and put a new stock and scope mount/scope and it works great, out to 300 yards so far. Also Mosin Nagants are also pretty accurate. 1903 Springfields are also good if you can find one reasonably priced.
.308 Enfield from C.A.I. Made in India in the late 60's.Fabulous
rifle for +/- $100.00.Mine is good out to 150 yds.with the open sights,
and I remember seeing clamp-on mounts for a scope at one time.Check with Navy Arms.
Just saw a sporterized 03-A3 for 250 w/Leupold can't beat '06
6.5x55 is a sweet euro 270 with alot of variants.
Springfield M1903. Cal 30-06. Far More superior than anything mentioned.
The Mauser 98K. Norma, Privi, and Wolf (Golden ammo) all make modern ammo for it. The Springfield comes in next.
Killed a lotta deer with a 91/30 MN.
Iv alwas used my Enfield 303 or my M44 carbine that shoots a 7.62x54R very good for deer
get a browning .270 its only 249.99
I love my Mossberg
ak you cant miss
Which is the best - 8mm mauser / Mossin Nagant / Enfield / other?What is the best surplus rifle for hunting?
It sounds like you are trying to save costs, so here are three inexpensive surplus rifles that still see a LOT of service.
The Mauser, Mosin-Nagant and the Enfield are all good quality rifles.
Each has their own distinct ammunition, and you can find quality, non-corrosive rounds at most any good sporting goods store. Any of those rounds will take most North American game - remember, placement is more important than quantity!
The least expensive will be the Mosin-Nagant, at under $100 for a nice rifle. Practice with fifteen cent corrosive surplus rounds that do NOT have a lacquer coating or you will suffer from the dreaded ';sticky bolt syndrome';, with all brands you would then fine tune your sights with the newly made, non corrosive hunting cartridges for about 75 cents a round.
Next up is the Enfield. You can get a .303 or a .308 for under $200 and they have actions that are usually quite smooth.
Last, the 8mm Mauser. Most modern bolt actions were fathered by this type of action, and they are fine rifles but they may average $250.
Of all these, the older caliber .303, #4Mk1 Enfield seems to have the best sight for me, a peep sight in the rear like all modern rifles.
You can get scope mounts for all of these, but at distances of about 150 yards or less, you truly do not need a scope.What is the best surplus rifle for hunting?
I have used several surplus rifles for hunting, it's hard to go wrong with most any of them. My personal favorite iis the Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 caliber. Recoil is light, the quality of the macxhined surfaces is excellent. If you choose to sporterize, there are many stocks and styles available. It was also the most accurate of my surplus guns, holding a 2'; group at 100 yards with military open sights. I have since fabricated my own scope mount that requires no permanent alteration to the gun, and mounted a 2-6 variable pistol scope, ala the ';scout rifle';. It is one of my favorite deer guns.
My pick would be something non-corrosive. That is the biggest problem with many older surplus rifles chambered in 7.62x54R or 8mm Mauser. They all have corrosive ammo. It can be a pain to clean.
Try and seek out something in 7.62x51 (308 Winchester). If you can find an Ishapore Lee-Enfield they rock. Or start scrubbing with hot soapy water after you shoot something corrosive, then clean normally.
edited to add: Of course you can find quality non-corrosive ammo but it makes the reason you want a surplus rifle kind of odd. Cheap ammo. Which is why I pointed towards the 308 Enfield. I have one, as smooth as butter. Ammo is plentiful and I don't have to worry about the ammo becoming scarce. It's a NATO caliber and a good hunting round.
I'm gong to get on my soap box about the illogical fear of ';corrosive'; ammo some people have.
I've been shooting corrosive surplus ammo in military surplus rifles for several decades and never had a rust or corrosion problem. Not one, in dozens of rifles and hundreds of outings. Unless you are a complete and total lazy slob about cleaning your tube out and prepping your guns to be put away in the safe, you will never have any problem either.
This kind of ammo was all your grandfather shot with, and his father, etc. going back to the invention of the cartridge. Did their guns corrode away on them? No, because they cleaned them, like you're supposed to. Every single surplus M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and 03 Springfield ever used in the US military at one time used ';corrosive';: ammo.
OK, off the soapbox.
My #1 hunting rifle is a beautiful 1950s customized Springfield 03 in the original .30-06 that was left to me by a friend of my dads and grandads. He spent a fortune on this one getting it done back then and the workmanship is excellent. While I kept her as a ';Safe-queen'; for many years, I decided to take her out and use her for what she was built for. A lot of honest field wear later, and I have no regrets, it's a fine gun that has taken many a meal and a few trophies as well (Yes, I'm one of those!).
I've also used Mausers for customizing and hunting and have one Mosin carbine that is now my pig gun, in Scout rifle setup. I've owned or had friends that used Argentine 7mm, Czech 8mms, Swede 6.5mm, Swiss 7.5mm, Brit Enfield .303s, etc.
All the .30 caliber range of WWII era rifles can make suitable hunters. The Swede 6.5x55 could very well be the most influential hunting round ever developed.
Problems do exist. Scope mounts can be a challenge, barrels may be worn, requiring replacement or custom loaded ammo for a snug fit. Stocks are avalable for many and you may need to replace or customize the bolt to clear the scope. In the Mosin, you simply cannot trust the safety mechanism, so you need to carry with an empyt chamber.
If you intend to build a custom rifle, the small ring Mausers make fine starting points.
Out of the box, in original configuration, the rifles that I would actually select to go in the field after deer would be, using original iron sights:
Springfield 03 .30-06
Swiss K-31 7.5mm Swiss
Swede M38 carbine 6.5x55
Yugo M48, 8mm
Enfield No. 4 Mk I, .303 Brit
SKS carbine, 7.62x39
Depends on how big of game you are hunting. For medium deer sized game and less a SKS is an excellent firearm. SKSs are affordable ($200) and reasonably accurate at resonable ranges. SKSs are semi-automatic which allows for quick follow up shots should you miss. The ammo for the SKS (7.62x39) is the cheapest rifle ammo excluding rimfire that money can buy.
mosin nagant 91/30
its 69 bucks
the 91/30 is longer and bigger than the m44, but also less recoil
7.62x54r is still plentiful by the case online.
corrosive only means you need to clean your gun with windex often.
c/r eligible
SVD rifle (surplus)
a bit on the expensive side
semi automatic ';sniper';
7.62x54r
same action as AK47
also c/r eligible
if you miss, simply aim and pull the trigger again.
Ok call me old fashon, but I like the old lever action model 94 30-30. They are accurate, easy to use and clean, they last forever with little work. They have been around for over a hundred years. you can get ammo almost anywhere. Its one of the most popular hunting rifles around, and will stand up to the abuse you might put it through. I mean geez they were made to be hung from the side of a horse!! average price of one $300-$500 unless it is and Older one that was made in the early 1900's. This gun is good upto around 150 yards with open sights. you can get what is called a ';scout'; scope for and older top eject model. and then it is good arund 250 yards. Solid Gun!
Enfield .303 N1 Mk4 is a good rifle. I bought one for $90 and put a new stock and scope mount/scope and it works great, out to 300 yards so far. Also Mosin Nagants are also pretty accurate. 1903 Springfields are also good if you can find one reasonably priced.
.308 Enfield from C.A.I. Made in India in the late 60's.Fabulous
rifle for +/- $100.00.Mine is good out to 150 yds.with the open sights,
and I remember seeing clamp-on mounts for a scope at one time.Check with Navy Arms.
Just saw a sporterized 03-A3 for 250 w/Leupold can't beat '06
6.5x55 is a sweet euro 270 with alot of variants.
Springfield M1903. Cal 30-06. Far More superior than anything mentioned.
The Mauser 98K. Norma, Privi, and Wolf (Golden ammo) all make modern ammo for it. The Springfield comes in next.
Killed a lotta deer with a 91/30 MN.
Iv alwas used my Enfield 303 or my M44 carbine that shoots a 7.62x54R very good for deer
get a browning .270 its only 249.99
I love my Mossberg
ak you cant miss
How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
By locals I mean the locals in the area you were hunting in outside your state or country.
Have you had a bad experience on that dream hunt you paid for in some other state or country?How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
I've hunted in nine US states, all Southern or Rockies, and two foreign countries, both in Latin America. I've had a few bad experiences on trips, but none caused by bad treatment from the locals.
I've been on guided trips where the guides were less than welcoming hosts and perhaps short on personality, but they more than made up for it in their hunting skills and after all, we were never promised luxury resort treatment, just a guide.
In most places I've found the welcome for visiting hunters is in direct proportion to the distance from large cities. If you are flying, don't fly in camo or obvious hunting gear unless you want to be stared at at the airport, especially after you picked up your gun cases.
I've driven in to towns that have big banners across Main St. that say ';Welcome Hunters';. Some of your small towns in south and west Texas that rely on the tourists dollars brought in by visiting deer hunters to the area go out of their way to make hunters welcome and want to come back next year.How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
No, (bad treatment by locals on hunting/fishing trips)
But I have notice in my travels (I used to travel 320-340 days a year) that Southerners are much warmer to strangers on the whole. I have met and made GOOD friends in the NY area too, but on average they (northerners) tend to be too busy or caught up in their own lives to be friendly with strangers.
I was treated pretty good. In fact I got invited back too! :D
And I had a bad dream hunt (lol). I fell out of the back of the truck and then got eaten by a moose. Lol.
I have been treated very well by locals....they appreciate the money I brought in .....Colorado and Canada
well the people hunting with us and the other hunters were nice
but the local citizens in town
some were kinda mean.
trying to take advantage of us.
but nothing too bad
No bad experiences!
Not cheap enough to let bad experiences happen.
there were hardly any ppl around other than the one who came out of her house and talked of her bereavement
Have you had a bad experience on that dream hunt you paid for in some other state or country?How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
I've hunted in nine US states, all Southern or Rockies, and two foreign countries, both in Latin America. I've had a few bad experiences on trips, but none caused by bad treatment from the locals.
I've been on guided trips where the guides were less than welcoming hosts and perhaps short on personality, but they more than made up for it in their hunting skills and after all, we were never promised luxury resort treatment, just a guide.
In most places I've found the welcome for visiting hunters is in direct proportion to the distance from large cities. If you are flying, don't fly in camo or obvious hunting gear unless you want to be stared at at the airport, especially after you picked up your gun cases.
I've driven in to towns that have big banners across Main St. that say ';Welcome Hunters';. Some of your small towns in south and west Texas that rely on the tourists dollars brought in by visiting deer hunters to the area go out of their way to make hunters welcome and want to come back next year.How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
No, (bad treatment by locals on hunting/fishing trips)
But I have notice in my travels (I used to travel 320-340 days a year) that Southerners are much warmer to strangers on the whole. I have met and made GOOD friends in the NY area too, but on average they (northerners) tend to be too busy or caught up in their own lives to be friendly with strangers.
I was treated pretty good. In fact I got invited back too! :D
And I had a bad dream hunt (lol). I fell out of the back of the truck and then got eaten by a moose. Lol.
I have been treated very well by locals....they appreciate the money I brought in .....Colorado and Canada
well the people hunting with us and the other hunters were nice
but the local citizens in town
some were kinda mean.
trying to take advantage of us.
but nothing too bad
No bad experiences!
Not cheap enough to let bad experiences happen.
there were hardly any ppl around other than the one who came out of her house and talked of her bereavement
How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
By locals I mean the locals in the area you were hunting in outside your state or country.
Have you had a bad experience on that dream hunt you paid for in some other state or country?How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
I've hunted in nine US states, all Southern or Rockies, and two foreign countries, both in Latin America. I've had a few bad experiences on trips, but none caused by bad treatment from the locals.
I've been on guided trips where the guides were less than welcoming hosts and perhaps short on personality, but they more than made up for it in their hunting skills and after all, we were never promised luxury resort treatment, just a guide.
In most places I've found the welcome for visiting hunters is in direct proportion to the distance from large cities. If you are flying, don't fly in camo or obvious hunting gear unless you want to be stared at at the airport, especially after you picked up your gun cases.
I've driven in to towns that have big banners across Main St. that say ';Welcome Hunters';. Some of your small towns in south and west Texas that rely on the tourists dollars brought in by visiting deer hunters to the area go out of their way to make hunters welcome and want to come back next year.How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
No, (bad treatment by locals on hunting/fishing trips)
But I have notice in my travels (I used to travel 320-340 days a year) that Southerners are much warmer to strangers on the whole. I have met and made GOOD friends in the NY area too, but on average they (northerners) tend to be too busy or caught up in their own lives to be friendly with strangers.
I was treated pretty good. In fact I got invited back too! :D
And I had a bad dream hunt (lol). I fell out of the back of the truck and then got eaten by a moose. Lol.
I have been treated very well by locals....they appreciate the money I brought in .....Colorado and Canada
well the people hunting with us and the other hunters were nice
but the local citizens in town
some were kinda mean.
trying to take advantage of us.
but nothing too bad
No bad experiences!
Not cheap enough to let bad experiences happen.
there were hardly any ppl around other than the one who came out of her house and talked of her bereavementdiscount makeup
Have you had a bad experience on that dream hunt you paid for in some other state or country?How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
I've hunted in nine US states, all Southern or Rockies, and two foreign countries, both in Latin America. I've had a few bad experiences on trips, but none caused by bad treatment from the locals.
I've been on guided trips where the guides were less than welcoming hosts and perhaps short on personality, but they more than made up for it in their hunting skills and after all, we were never promised luxury resort treatment, just a guide.
In most places I've found the welcome for visiting hunters is in direct proportion to the distance from large cities. If you are flying, don't fly in camo or obvious hunting gear unless you want to be stared at at the airport, especially after you picked up your gun cases.
I've driven in to towns that have big banners across Main St. that say ';Welcome Hunters';. Some of your small towns in south and west Texas that rely on the tourists dollars brought in by visiting deer hunters to the area go out of their way to make hunters welcome and want to come back next year.How were you treated by locals when hunting out of state or country?
No, (bad treatment by locals on hunting/fishing trips)
But I have notice in my travels (I used to travel 320-340 days a year) that Southerners are much warmer to strangers on the whole. I have met and made GOOD friends in the NY area too, but on average they (northerners) tend to be too busy or caught up in their own lives to be friendly with strangers.
I was treated pretty good. In fact I got invited back too! :D
And I had a bad dream hunt (lol). I fell out of the back of the truck and then got eaten by a moose. Lol.
I have been treated very well by locals....they appreciate the money I brought in .....Colorado and Canada
well the people hunting with us and the other hunters were nice
but the local citizens in town
some were kinda mean.
trying to take advantage of us.
but nothing too bad
No bad experiences!
Not cheap enough to let bad experiences happen.
there were hardly any ppl around other than the one who came out of her house and talked of her bereavement
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